Empires on Source 2 : Source 2 is FREE edition

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Beerdude26, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    i have read it. it involves the super friendly and helpful unreal community shouting down a criticism with "man just learn how to model n shit. this is games, it should be hard. games is life."
     
  2. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    I would totally do maps in UE4 if it did brushes like Hammer.
     
  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i dont really get your point, you had to learn hammer and find a fitting workflow aswell ...

    this baking stuff and what uv means is nothing mystical and unless you do highly detailed animals or humanoids not as complicated as you seem to think it is.
    also you dont neccessarily need to bake normalmaps at all (you will want to use it later i bet you as you can archieve way higher detail at lower cost)

    theoretically you could make your whole map in blender and then copy it over in parts. but its probably faster to align your stuff in ue4 right away as you get more of an idea about the results.

    if you need anything specific with blender i will give my best to answer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  4. LordDz_2

    LordDz_2 Strange things happens here

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    Do this in hammer. :) #I hate working on displacements.
    [Youtube]MlgvfEicdwU[/youtube]

    In this video he creates a cave out of props, all the assests are made by EPIC Games so they are already in the game.
    [youtube]ejnvI3MtQ-I[/youtube]

    And hammer was annoying too to learn in the beginning, all with func_details, areaportals, displacements, lighting bugging out, leaks, leaks, leaks, random crashes, etc..

    EDIT: Blocks. (Yes there are top, left, right views too, he's just editing it in perspective view)
    [youtube]24puRznPJyc[/youtube]
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  5. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    To be honest, I doubt that you can't do most of the stuff in Unreal with BSP.
    This was just posted on a noob challenge over on polycount and is BSP only.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i wonder how performance is on that. it even says so on the manual pages for geometry brushes, unless its really simple shapes, static meshes are better. but it also seems you can turn geometry brushes into static meshes - idk why youd want that, its gonna be so much easier to create in a 3d suite where you have all those nice functions and modifiers and whatnot.
    noone ever argued about possibilities. you could do the above in hammer aswell - only lighting/reflections will look worse (and if its a room with angles different to 90°, its gonna be a drag to do in hammer)

    also something 3dsuite haters seem to forget, unlike in hammer its possible to scale static meshes, maybe see them more like youd use textures in hammer. you dont need to create each wall by itself ...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9wRN7gZkyk a series of 6 videos, he doesnt use all that many different props, neither are they overly complicated to create.

    yes its probably a bit more work as long as there are no static meshes available, but in a few months this might have changed (hopefully) - then kitbashing will be a super fast way to create awesome looking levels.

    edit:
    maybe we should start a list of meshes mappers will need so whoever is bored can pick something and we eventually will end with enough stuff to create something nice?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  7. Empty

    Empty Member

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    aight I'll make empires on unity 5
    might as well cover all our bases

    I nominate trickster to make it in game maker studio for 100% coverage
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    mapping in unity is not so different from how it is in ue4. i have only downloaded unity5 so far, but if it isnt much different from 4 you get a way better package with ue4 - unity youll have to do almost everything except for the renderer by yourself.

    edit:
    oh i lied i installed it aswell ^^

    edit2:
    alright, version5 comes with a lot more useful standard assets. 4 didnt even come with a c# character controller and getting js and cs to work together was a hackish hackjob
    now it even got all sorts of vehicles, thats nice
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  9. Kylegar

    Kylegar Specstax Rule

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    Source 2 got rid of BSP mapping anyway. It's pretty much a 3d modelling tool now.
     
  10. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    RPGMaker, Flash, Starcraft II, visual basic forms. We're world wide. Everywhere you go it's Empires.
     
  11. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I think part of the reason you might want to create static meshes of brushes is so you can import that mesh to a 3d suite so have a better guide as to how big you need to make something, or simply shape it. That's what most tutorials say, block it in with brushes then replace it with meshes made in a 3d suite.

    The other reason especially for people coming from hammer that just want to work with brushes is lighting gets funky with just brushes, light will bleed through corners when it shouldn't, so you convert it to a mesh then lighting problems are gone.
     
  12. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    boo grant stole my post
    it still has the block tool for making basic geometry. and as far as i know, it acts the exact same way. it allows a non-artist like me to make a map

    a 12 year old can make the worst fucking map in hammer and thats awesome. ue4 has such a learning curve that puts off casual mappers like myself.

    it took me about 150 hours to make eastborough from learning hammer to finishing the first beta. i dont know how much it wouldve taken if i had to learn blender and then create everything slowly in that. i probably would've given up




    epic says they are considering changing it, but who knows if they'll actually go through with it. what will probably happen is that if its changed at all, it will be for ue5 (this time its for real!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    you are right, we should stick with a horrible outdated engine for as long as its not working exactly like hammer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  14. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    what have i ever done to be trolled like this
     
  15. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, sorry that was inappropriate.

    But wouldn't it be better to find ways to work around the admitably steep learning curve instead of criticising something we cannot change easily? We can teach eachother, we will need to anyway, theres a lot of tutorials to be written, its supposed to be a community project, the more there is a community the better chance its getting done. The more contribute the faster its done. Each crate, barrel, rock, pilar, statue, wall, door, fusebox, vent, pipe, valve, gear, desk, chair, stool, couch, bed, plant, trim, fence, railing, staircase, flag, poster, lamp, road, floor, locker, chimney, supportcolum, i-beam, railtrack, sign, post, watertower, gastank, hatch, and what else not, helps at this point - all stuff you can easily get started with before you go about a full scale level. There is basically nothing of that, its not coming with a ton of props like source does.

    Yes its a lot of work to create all those art assets needed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  16. Kylegar

    Kylegar Specstax Rule

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    Well, 1) have you used Hammer2? It's not different than using Blender or 3dsmax to make geo at this point.

    2) Yeah, I strongly believe we'll see the changes to CSG in UE4 this year. They have a very good turn around time (3-4 months from saying they are going to do something to it showing up in Master... and another 2ish from there to release), and level creation is the biggest gap in UE4 right now.

    Regardless, We don't directly need CSG stuff with an empires-like project. We need assets we can drop on top of heightmap terrain and fill in. You can do what you need with the current brush tools (they aren't that much different than hammer, just no displacements) and you can turn them into 3d meshes to do work with them in an outside editor.
     
  17. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    And to be honest, it's much easier to ask either flasche or me for some help in either teaching Blender basics or actually making models for maps you want to create, than just complaining all the time.
    If you would have just come to me from the beginning and asked for help, I'd feel much more inclined to do so than I feel now after reading all the posts you've made.
    Regardless, I'd gladly help you anyway, since I myself have no idea of designing a good working map. I can make it look pretty, sure. But I have no idea how to make it play well.
     
  18. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i wanted to ask you anyway so i aswell could do it publically. i plan to do (or at least start) a short kickstart-introduction to blender (=from null to something in UE4) specifically aimed at mappers/contributors this weekend, would you proofread it? (also my workflow, you are way more experienced then i am - and ofc im happy about anyone else wanting to help, i just dont know who knows his way around blender already)
    i thought ill do a fire-extinquisher since it will cover a lot of stuff already - reference images, round shapes and holes, extrusion along a path and whatnot - any better ideas? im open for suggestions ...

    ... also im a fan of written tutorials and i have very little clue about screen recording. if anyone wants a video with sechsy flasche voice in austiran accent, would someone be willing to show me through the process? i dont really want to waste time on learning that all by myself aswell either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  19. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Yeah sure, you can hoof it my way. Yes, that was a pony reference, and no, I am not sorry.
     
  20. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    [youtube]clakekAHQx0[/youtube]
     

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