We may as well just hash it out, once and for all.

ohh snap! I smell an infinite loop here somewhere.

ban trolls but, some mods are trolls so ban mods but, mods are mods so can't ban them but, they are trolls so they must be banned according to the rules but, they are mods...

 

This thread is silly. Please move to black hole.

 

inb4 someone joined over 2 years after dee was active talks about how good of a mod she was

awww shit nvm

 

what is this i don't even

 

It was actually for three days for "trolling." Here. In the empiresmod forums. If you reviewed the specific incident he was clearly provoked by chris0132 who accused him of being poor (personal insults are not bannable but "trolling" is?)

When I pressed the issue, he cited that brutos approved of the ban. I contacted brutos and he said he didn't really know what was going on. I have records of both conversations. Empty has a record of lying and manipulating others. Unfortunately for him, he's a small player in the big league. This problem will work itself out eventually.

 

Yeah whatever I banned dubee. He was pissing me off anyway, are you happy, there's some closure.

 

The problem isn't that you're ragebanning people. The problem is that you're not an important enough person to have the authority to rageban people or to change the de facto rules of the forum.

 

Rampant, it wouldn't hurt to state that you do not actually have all the facts here.

Don't pretend people forgot about your own unacceptable behavior, back in the day. Backseat moderating coming from you is a joke.

 

Personal emotions should never interfere with your moderation. Irregardless of whether, "I've a mod, I do wut I want," you should take a note on how mods from everywhere else do things to make people happy and have a successful forum.

To be honest, the problem is that there are too many moderators here. There's a balanced ratio between mods::forumers and we have too many mods. I actually see no reason that anyone else has mod besides Kylegar, Krenzo, Brutos, Arklansman (as much as I don't want to admit it..), and maybe one or two I forgot. Maybe. But those 4 have been pretty much on-the-ball with their moderation (no, I daren't speak against Krenzo). These people, with the exception of Krenzo (arklansman is back?), are also active in the forums and the community.

 

1) If you want something from krenzo, everyone send him $50. Lord knows we've all played empires more than any other game we've bought in the last 6 years, might as well pay for it.

2) If that happens, then you can talk to him about being more of a presence with the development.

3) Shandy, your posts are always coherent and well written, but it is lost upon these boards. Maybe 2 people would have read all of that, and only a quarter could possibly have comprehended it.

4) Development team needs to support community scripters. Nuff said.

5) Go troll mr. die on steam chat. It'll make you feel much better.

6) If you haven't noticed, anyone who is part of this demo crapic movement is a fucking tard who worships 2.12.

7) This thread essentially gave trolls a giant shot of pure caffeine directly into their veins.

8) Making bulletin point posts are fun

9) As serious as this thread is, it only pertains to about 10 people. I don't disagree with any of your posts shandy, and maybe they were posted specifically to troll the trolls into making posts to bash empty to easily separate them so the admins can ban them, in which case, kudos to you, but it's a massive wall of text flavored troll bait :/

 

i got my first message from ***** yesterday and now i feel like an integral part of the community

 

It still seems that everyone is fixating on the quality of moderation - I don't necessarily care that the moderation is shitty (it is in my opinion)... and I don't really care if the moderation "hurts the forums" - what I care about is whether it hurts development - and I am absolutely correct in pointing out that it does. It's simple: Empty is a particle effects guy, therefore he should be making particle effects, not moderating. I'm not going to worship Kylegar either, as he is one of the individuals responsible for letting developers like Empty break out of the child play pen and run wild (and Empty isn't the only one, I can name a few others), which has led to developers developing nothing and moderating everything.

Seriously, if anyone thinks that the Black Hole was much different from every other category of the forums, they should go check out the Suggestions forum. Shitty moderation is well-documented around here, but it isn't what's problematic. What's problematic is how most of the developers spend such a quantity of their time moderating things that aren't even worth a second glance, that they don't develop anything at present.

We had some momentum around 2.25 until briefly interrupted by DDoSers, which actually brought us closer together - but then, moderation activity shot up while development grounded to a halt. This is the crux of the problem - whether the devs are good moderators or bad moderators is a moot point because they should be developing, not moderating.

Now Kylegar is mentioning that we're going to get something new in place of the black hole? I don't even care about the black hole... or the "something new" that will replace it. It'd be much more useful to everyone for Kylegar to just leave & hand off the forum admin torch to someone who can compartmentalize the functions of the dev team and who will put a foot down when developers wander astray. Things would then be someone else's problem and Kylegar wouldn't have to lift a finger. It seems that few people around here know how to work smarter rather than harder, or they just want to cling to the Empires forums so that they can feel like they have some kind of utility. I leave it to you guys to decide which is the case, and what should be done. As it stands, nothing will be done, and for the very reasons I have outlined.

 

Shandy for lead mod 2010!

 

12 pages in 17 hours. Over the black hole. Wow.

 

Nothing actually new has been discussed here, but it might seem that more people are understanding a bit of the situation.

All in all, its a very complicated situation and all the easy ways out of this mess have already been attempted, the last was having a new lead: Soundspawwn. Having a completely new person turn lead was practically the last option here to clean ship, and it only complicated things even further. I had already said to soundspawwn that I would give up access if it was necessary to clean ship, I passed my part of the torch so to say, as in, I would voluntarily participate in the act of cleaning ship, however, the same cannot be said about others; and if they can't be persuaded to pass the torch, for whatever reason (valid or not), there is no way to achieve anything.

There is no hierarchy, different people hold different access. So whether or not you think there are still options to sort the mess out, it's going to be a very complicated task.

The most obvious choice would be to have a coder as lead, Krenzo also seems to prefer a coder as lead. the problem has been that the right coder to take the project off his hands has not been found, and a synergy between developers has not been found, this is where some of the core problems lie, there is no one to pass the torch to, and passing the torch means having to deal with lots of individuals and have them make the transition go as painless as possible.

 

I wanted add to this to say that the problems that are apparant at the moment are simply just the problems on the surface, the management of the team. What people don't see is that beyond the management there are many more crucial issues, dealing with the actual development of the game. If you talk to many of the developers that have worked on the mod, you will notice that most of them will disagree on the way forward in terms of direction and planning of the game.

Most of the hierarchical problems are based on the fact that making agreements between developers is futile. There is no design document that is up to date, there is no time table, no plan of attack, no hierarchy etc etc. And lots of excess bagage to complicate things.

 

I honestly don't see an issue with any of the moderation, any of the actions taken or...well anything. None of the moderation decisions lately have bothered me in the slightest. Who the fuck cares, it's a fucking forum.

I want to point one thing out to you about Mr Die. He has barely ever played this game, and he certainly hasn't in the last 4 years. Does that not tell you something? So what if some developers are heavy handed with their moderation? Empty added new particles to this game, something not seen in a long time. Sure, some people whine and bitch "qq my fps" etc, but unlike the vast majority of people, he CONTRIBUTED to the mod. MOOtant did the vast majority of coding for 2.25. So quite frankly, when you consider what they're doing, I dont see why they can't do whatever the hell they want. It's a fucking forum.

Developers, in my honest opinion, aren't wasting time moderating these forums. Why? Because either:

a) They're developing and moderating, they have the free time on their hands to do both, moderating isn't infringing on their time to develop the game itself.

b) They're doing nothing developmentwise anyway, so it makes little to no difference.

In my opinion, those who are actually working on the game can do whatever the hell they like, because they've earned it. Those who sit around contributing nothing, have no right to moderate or do anything regarding that. Old Devs like Kylegar carried many releases, so they get that leeway and, like I said earlier, they earned it. But I honestly disagree with the statement that developers are wasting time on these forums rather than developing, because quite frankly, if they're on here, it means they have nothing better to do.

Notice Brutos is staying out of most of this? That's because he's busy making this game.

 

Shall we put that to the test?

+1

 

When there's a release of empires and you've made a significant contribution that no-one else could have done, then quite frankly you could have free reign as far as I'm concerned. I care about empiresmod, not the empiresmod forums.