We may as well just hash it out, once and for all.

Tuesday, August 10, 2010
2:59 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: Well
2:59 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: How much are people talking about me?
2:59 AM - Fooshi: some people
3:00 AM - Fooshi: they mention "that shit mr. die did"
3:00 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: lol
3:01 AM - Fooshi: Originally Posted by Deadpool View Post
Mr Die is trying seriously hard to get me to post here for him
3:01 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: That was wrong
3:01 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: And after he posted that
3:01 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: We talked to each other
3:01 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: and he said he was sorry for insulting me
3:02 AM - Fooshi: well
3:02 AM - Fooshi: whatever you're up to
3:02 AM - Fooshi: you wont get me to join you, since i have no fucking idea what you've done
3:03 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: I don't want you to join
3:03 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: We are an experienced and dedicated cadre
3:03 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: Who read and work together
3:03 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: You're free to sympathize with us, but we differentiate between cadre and sympathizers
3:03 AM - Fooshi: GO AWAY!
3:03 AM - Fooshi: SCARY PERSON!
3:04 AM - =[BSID]= PVT *****: How?
3:04 AM - Fooshi: USING COMPLEX WORDS
3:04 AM - Fooshi: D:

I just blocked him. Fucker...

*EDIT*

Why the fuck is his name all **'d out?

Seriously, tell me what shit he's done.

 

he writes essays about how the forums should be run and people take him way too seriously, like he broke through their internet and set their dogs on fire, stole their girlfriends, and turned into a vampire in order to steal their family inheritance.

 

says i apologised to him lol, everyone block that kid

 

people take him for cancer when he's just benign as words. getting pissy over any of this is about the same as losing.

so you all should drop hostility because most of what he does is write, which is harmless.

 

This whole forum is getting way too fucking dramatic.

Plan A:

Open black hole. Leave no room for moderation other than NSFW spamming in non-NSFW threads, illegal shit, and threads made purely against someone else.

Plan B: Accept that 'off-topic' is the new black hole.

Plan C: Ban everyone.

 

I had no idea the Empires Forum could compete this much with day-time soaps.

Remember, you're on the internet. DON'T TRUST RANDOM PEOPLE WHO CONTACT YOU OVER THE INTERNET. Just be thankful this guy isn't a Nigerian scammer, because some of you would now be broke.

Empty should get some kind of medal for enduring the libel of this merry bunch of 14 year olds.

 

Krenzo should close the forums for a week to give everyone time to cool off. Then revert the forums to what they were 4 days ago or so.

But hey, I'm not in charge. If I was I'd just give full admin rights to Cloud, then kick back and relax.

 

I still don't know why the black hole died. What prompted it's removal, and who removed it?

If this is due to Die's nonsense...uhhh, just perma-ban anyone who posts stuff from him. You can actually have a moderated black hole....it just takes some sense. Lay out rules - no Die shit, no kiddie porn, no porn, SFW only, no racism, no insults - etc. You don't have to give up and let the place turn into a shitstorm, there IS in fact a happy medium, it just involves having some reliable and reasonable moderators. I've been the mod of forums before, I'd dealt with this before. The ban hammer (and by extension, the warning system) when used right is a great tool. Go look at the [H] forums...thousands of posts a day, and it remains civil there.

My point is, saying "if you [this minority of people causing trouble] cannot use it right you [everyone] cannot use it" is NO SOLUTION. For that sentance to evaluate to be correct or true, you need to punish those causing the problem.

Meaning, this is what it should be:
"if you [this minority of people causing trouble] cannot use it right you [this minority of people causing trouble] cannot use it"

Die also heckled me. It ended with me blocking him, after letting Krenzo know that Die was still lurking in the shadows - a fact he was already all too aware of.

My suggestion: Find forum goers you trust and who are reasonable, and yet are not devs...and give them mod powers. Dee was well liked here, save Simon's antics...you'll find evidence of that in a year old thread where she came back and played the mod for a brief period of time...everyone welcomed here back. She ;eft simply because she had school afaik. This place would do well to have someone like her around to sort shit out (and I say this having disagreed with some of her decisions.)

 

Well I knew you didn't really care... but your blatant ineptitude is what is surprising. Gutlessness never seemed to be one of your characteristics - you're Krenzo, you have the Krenzyte, and you could single-handedly solve the horrendous break-downs in the structure of the development team that keep moderation high and development low.

Thank you for that cute patronizing little quip, but I don't trust random people and wouldn't fall victim to a scammer. But the timing of CPatton messaging me synced up with what I was told by you-know-who, which led me to think that they had been conversing and led me to believe that CPatton had indeed seen such a thing - and given that it wouldn't be the first time that the crooked E has said something behind my back, the circumstances all pointed to a big "Yes" and I trust CPatton - he's a good friend. Upon your confirmation that it wasn't true, I corrected my original post accordingly. The first time the leader of this silly movement contacted me on Steam, I spent the first 15 minutes of the conversation denigrating him for his stupid trolling charade and spam. But underlying all of the silly movement's silliness are some issues that do actually plague the mod - which is plagued enough as-is with a low population.

Regardless, your reaction to CPatton was miscalculated and demonstrates your irrational paranoia for the silly democratic movement. Fortunately your reaction led CPatton to do something that benefits us all: the eradication of the democratic movement's forums on the BSID site. I don't know what medal you think you should cough up for Empty - the only one I can think of would be a medal for going from a perpetually banned troll to a forum moderator who has become the mere play-thing of Mr Die's ultimate trolling of the entire community. By all means, list Empty's contributions and give him a medal. At the end of the day I'm right - my identification of the problems is spot-on, and the impact on development is sizable.

This shouldn't be insulting to Empty anyway, he knows full well what I think of him and I know what he thinks of me. Still, I have not recommended that he be removed or anything of the sort - Brutos & Empty know my real suggestions, and I stand by them because they work.

 

I spent all of my free time for five years working on this mod, and you want me to give more of my life to developing Empires in order to fix development issues? Wasn't five years enough? I just can't care like I used to, and I don't want to go back to that. I only stick around to try to help keep things from falling apart. I don't really want to be involved in anything and try not to be which is why I handed things over to others. What's surprising about that?

 

Seriously, what the f*ck is up with all this hatred for this Mr.***. Ok so you guys say he posts alot of essays. Um ok. what ever. So did they give you virtual paper cuts or something. How is all this talk about Mr.*** even F'ing related to what Shandy's OP is about? He is simply saying that Dev!=Mod. Whats wrong with that? I understand that we need mods fine ok thats a given in all forums. Ever hear of a thing in America about separation of church and state? Well I think the church is mod powers and state is dev team. The Dev run the game and the mods run the forums. Hell its a bad analogy ya but im not a damn word smith ok. Point is LEAVE YOUR HATE AT THE DOOR AND LISTEN TO REASON! Then discuse like civil people instead of a bunch of children.

 

One of the main points in the original post was that Empty was apparently going to ban Shandy and many others. ***** was actually trolling CPatton and Shandy and convinced both of them that Empty was going to do this. So, in the original post, Shandy was upset that Empty would be threatening this which led into his issues with moderation.

 

I know everyone looks up to you because you created this mod and in doing so a sort of cult. You do take on certain... responsibility for making this cult but, I have no idea why everyone thinks your the god that can answer all questions and solve all problems.

You guys need to learn that he is simply a man.. like all men he can get tired of a 'thing' and want to move on. He is simply still here (I believe) because he feels its like his child and needs to be brought up before letting it fly away.

 

Krenzo,

I may have spoken out of order - don't think that I don't respect you for the work you've done. I do.

However, the thing is that I do actually understand your viewpoint of wanting to be a "director" on the board rather than the "CEO" - so do other people. That's why it'd be nice for you to hand the reins over to someone who would have the autonomy to make the differences without you even having to lift a finger - someone like ScardyBob (though he's a bit busy atm) or maybe even this new Dan911 guy who seems to be promising. Not asking you to "develop" again - but you could restructure how moderation works in a matter of 5 to 10 minutes; you could appoint & empower a level-headed individual capable of keeping the place clean, safe, and friendly in your stead within one or two days tops; you already do us the favor of reviewing & accepting written agreements/NDAs from new coders. I don't think any of us are asking you to slave over an ailing mod, but you did just say that you stick around to help keep things from falling apart - well, they are starting to - the fabric of the community's "lulz factor" is starting to tear and people are splitting into factions over a stupid forum category (that probably would've been better off not existing in the first place) - to be fair, axing that forum is akin to axing Spectator, but the community & devs should have higher priorities than that forum... the fact that it became the top priority demonstrates that this "high moderation, low development" isn't a very steady course.

Maybe even appoint someone to force inactive developers to hand the torch off to newer developers as they come knocking, and hand it back to them when they become active again. We're notorious for having mappers that don't map, modelers that don't model, and coders that don't code, but all of which moderate.

Let us do the work for you.

For the record, my issues with Empty's (and others') moderation started about 3 months ago.

 

Wait, you know he's said he gets at least one email a day about this? You know that, right? That's enough for him to hate MrDumb's guts, in my book.

He did hand off, last I checked, to the current team. That the current team has not accomplished much...isn't Krenzo's fault. He handed off, what, 2 years ago? And Dizzyone was supposed to be a mod....but most of the mods here digress into antics such as editing people's posts on them (now that people like Bodrick, Dee and the like have moved on - people who could actually mod and did.) Appoint a level headed mod/admin? Sure...do that. I'd be all for that...but restructing and all? I think Krenzo has a life and plainly doesn't want to deal with it.

 

the democratic movement is not just a movement but a way of life. the people united will never be defeated.

that being said I think that some administrators on this board are much too inexperienced to deal with community issues such as this, and should be more civil.

 

/facepalm

Banning is a GREAT way to deal with this.

 

You have a very different understanding of the "handing off" that I'm speaking of. I'm not talking about handing off lead development positions. The only restructuring I've suggested is separating development from moderation, because we have a collection of people who accomplish only the latter.

You're missing my point though. Yes, Krenzo has a life and doesn't want to deal with it... However, until such remedies are made, or until he just shuts down the forums and pulls the plug, there will be things to deal with. He could however, let us deal with it - that's the most logical solution for all parties. The current people equipped to deal with these problems explicitly choose not to, despite repeated attempts by myself and others to reach out to them with suggestions and offerings of help and dedication. Therefore, their autonomy should be discarded and instead issued to individuals who are adept for the task of making sure that things are taken care of in such a way that Krenzo doesn't even have to think about Empires. The alternative is to leave things at the status quo, only to have some other future "incident" over something as petty as a forum category, that results in some other "democratic movement"-style group that plagues the community and furthers high moderation & low development.

And no rampantandroid - banning has proven ineffective at eradicating the silly movement group for 4 years. I know you're a Republican, but please tell me you're not the "George Bush: Stay the course!" type. We can either address this problem now or let it continue to result in drama and spam. I started this thread because I'd rather us have a solution by the end of the week - imagine a paradigm in which developers develop, moderators moderate, Krenzo gets to go on a cruise, and Mr Die and his gang give up because there's no more objectives to pursue - maybe they'll even go plague some other community. Does it sound idealistic? It's easier to achieve than people seem to think.

 

From what I can tell, Shandy has already said in his posts that Empty "has said something behind my back" and I know everyone knows there are issues between the EPIC and BSID crews. I heard that Empty has issues with JPL too. Hell even dubee was banned for a day too. Its easy to read tons of posts a day and think everyone is a secret troll who does things for the lolz. This a complicated issue that needs to be carefully picked apart like a archeologist who carefully picks apart the contents of an ancient dead animals stomach. Each item separated itemized and discussed till all are relatively satisfied.

I don't care wich "side" wins but, removing black hole out right is a real detriment to this forum.