We may as well just hash it out, once and for all.

wow, you guys are fucking wacko..

There is nothing going on as far as development to this game. So I come on here and tease people in a non serious way(empty took it serious) and I get banned. It made me and others think maybe he should just be a dev instead of mod..

THEE END.

 

Trickster, your entire post couldn't be more inaccurate than it is, except with regards to Mr Die.

CoffeeBurrito was in charge for most of the releases Kylegar had involvement with, and some of Kylegar's client installation packages hardly deserve to be named "releases." Empty may have done particle work, but isn't doing anything now. What is he doing with his time? Overmoderating a bunch of useless stuff that isn't even worth moderating. Banning trolls... on a trolling forum? Wow. Great contribution.

Also, the idea that "devs" are the only people who've ever contributed anything is silly, even though they may be able to enjoy fulfilling their fantasies of "doing whatever they want."

I'm not wrong, but if you think I am... what then do you substitute for the growth in moderation and the decline in development?

As I said already, the team is full of mappers who don't map, particle effects artists who don't work on particle effects, coders who don't code (save for Brutos & Dan911), scripters that don't script, yet most all of which moderate things that aren't worth moderating.

Maybe you are like these individuals in that you enjoy wasting time doing pointless things, but they should at least explicitly state that they have a will to do nothing useful, and stop flaunting developer titles while pretending to care about development.

Don't be a cop-out. I didn't ask for a torch, I asked for some gutless pansies to use their torch or lose it, but because they all worship Empty as some kind of second coming of Jesus, that won't happen.

It's a shame most of the devs have their priorities ass backwards. Sure would be nice to see a patch instead of a hundred banned trolls.

 

See what I did there?

 

I'll be a super mod :D

on topic: I agree 100% with the shand man

 

It's hilarious you are just as wrong as Trickster, but for the same reasons, you are just as right.

I think the #1 thing you guys don't get is...where do the developers take the game from here? Bugfixing is great and fun and all, but fuck me it's boring. It's probably the main reason Krenzo burnt out. It's the main reason I burnt out. The only thing keeping coders sane is adding new features...changing up the game, but every time we do, it's a shitstorm. So...what do we do? I loved working on Empires when I did, and in most cases, opening up visual studio was more enjoyable than opening Empires. Watching a feature come together and making it work in the context of your vision is incredibly rewarding. That being said...I'm out of ideas for empires. I'm not sure about anyone else, but the primary focus is getting Lua working. There are no improvements to gameplay. What is there to change? Empires is hella fun. It works with the limitations provided by the source engine. It's fun, deep, and challenging. Yea, the balance is a bit off, but...We have 0 tools to work on it. The only changes we make are based on feel, and you need a freaking good carpenter to build a chair without tools. (I don't mean spreadsheets, I mean usage data.)

Furthermore, I don't think you get how little time we spend moderating. I spend more time thinking of funny delete messages than I do doing anything else when moderating the forums.


I think the mod is dead, and that we should move on. But...that's just me, and I will continue to help the development team in any way I can. I have contributed code recently, I'm helping with the Lua binding project. I'm making sure that everyone has what they need to get developing. I kicked this shitstorm into gear to get motivation again. It's working. I'm also not going to do anything about Empty, because he hasn't done anything wrong. He gives reasons for each ban he makes, and if we don't think they are good, they are reversed. The only bans I have reversed are the ones I felt were too long.

 

This is the hilariously wrong part

 

If you honestly think the mod is dead and can't think of anything to change or add to it then release the fuckin script manifest.

 

Empires needs a complete overhaul but because people got used to flawed (completly broken) features and mechanics it will never change and the only way to make it better is to start from scratch.

I personaly dont like that the game is now in the hands of some (almost all of them) incompetent idiots (ban me for that if you like) that dont even have the will to do anything, not that I think that theirs much conceptional skill left in the team. I always understood why someone was accepted into the dev team til now. Currently the dev team consists of people that think more about titles and status than actually doing something. Everyone fights against each other, no vision what the game should be, no thought through concepts just random bullshit.

 

I do if you kick everyone that cant work in a team... wait thats 95%

 

Everyone does need to calm down. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong.

 

Well no team is better than a team that is full of members that only try to accomplish their personal goal or want to force their personal vision how the game has to be.

 

So 1 lead dev thinks its dead and not worth working on(klyegar) and the other doesn't have time to work on it but thinks its still worth working on(brutos)?

The rest are just devs trolling the forums flexing admin powers.

 

Brutos is awesome, we feed him ideas and he implements them when he gets time.

 

And he listens to people who are intelligent, rather than people who suggest pointless ideas that don't matter (I once recall a dev working on coding in an mp3 player because one guy didn't know how to -windowed -noborder).

 

Because of NC.

 

Yeah brutos is a great dev but he doesn't have the time to really push it forward before the source engine becomes ancient. I think the goal is the steam release which will no doubt bring on more dev's/modelers/ect who would have more time to work on it. But that will take years at this pace.

You make a good point tho trickster when you say this is just a stupid forum and who gives a fuck what goes on in it.. You know who does? Some of the dev admins who have banned regulars for fucking around in a time when the mod is in a null with nothing to talk about.

 

First, I'm relatively new to this forum, so I may say things that sound horribly ignorant in this post.

Second, I visit this forum mainly for the Off-Topic and Black Hole sections because those were the only places where entertaining threads appear. Hence I was disappointed with the disappearance of the Black Hole.

Third, I don't know if the developers are working on it or not, but from various conversations since the release of v2.25 I'm getting the impression that players no longer believe there will be aircrafts in Empires in the future. Seriously, the possibility of aircrafts in a RTS/FPS was a major draw that pulled me from Natural Selection to this mod. Please give us some form of assurance that things will improve before NS2 gets released on Steam and draws the crowd away.

Fourth, pointing out problems is as useless as name-calling if one does not provide a constructive suggestion that has not be rejected before. Simply rehashing old, discarded ideas does not help in any way. If your suggestion was rejected, move on. Calling names and using vulgar language won't make your suggestion more attractive.

Fifth, the devs and admins in this thread think they're handling everything correctly while the party that Shandy seems to represent believe otherwise. Most of the more serious posts here can easily be summarized into "I'm right and you're wrong". At this rate, this thread will just loop endlessly till someone locks it. Obviously there are misconceptions and misunderstandings between the people who are actually arguing here. Some explanations (and tolerance for different opinions) are needed.

Sixth, quoting Richard from the Sword of Truth series, "Think of the solution, not the problem." In this case, we need to stop thinking about whether Shandy is right or wrong and, instead, consider how things can be improved or how you can help. This thread alone provides ample proof that the players of this mod aren't satisfied with the rate of progress made by the devs.

Perhaps the devs can minimize their interaction with the players and let the admins who aren't devs handle the bans and thread removal. I don't know if anyone has noticed this, but most game developers do not post often in the forums of their games. I'm pretty sure they have good reasons for that. For one, it's probably to prevent themselves from giving players the impression that they're wasting their time on the forums instead of working on their games.

According to some, the dev team is lacking in synergy. Maybe someone other than the leader needs to be replaced or that additional help is needed?

If nothing works, you may want to look at all the other HL2 mods that were created since the release of Half Life 2 itself. Not many are still alive today and even the good mods can die. Empires can easily become one of them, especially since NS2 has reached the semi-playable Alpha phase.

 

The solution is to separate devs from forum admins and either get productive in developing for a steam release like you stated or give up and give the community the script manifest.