We may as well just hash it out, once and for all.

​

It's obvious to both players and developers that disagreements over the current events on the forums are not going to go away until they are at the very least acknowledged, if not resolved. Guerrilla troll threads are ineffective, heavy-handed moderation is ineffective, and removing a forum category has been ineffective at stopping guerrilla threads and heavy-handed moderation.

So, if we can (and we should be able to because we've done it before with stacking debate threads) have a serious thread, then maybe we can acknowledge and resolve this issue.

I'm not part of the silly democratic movement, which takes a serious problem and diminishes it to a charade... but I'm not sure what's worse... Empty, or the inept individuals that both worship him and enable him to maraud around a mere forum disrupting the very culture that breathes enough life into the mod to keep it from having a population count of absolute zero. I have gone through proper channels to seek resolution and I kept Empty directly informed of my concerns, rather than partaking in the silly movement or the guerrilla threads, yet my concerns have not been addressed - I guess they fell on deaf ears. It's funny how things on the forums were pretty comfortable before 2.25... and even more comical that clear consensus exists among long-time veterans of the community that the verbiage and actions of certain developers have brought players' distrust of developers to a peak.

Is it time for those of us involved in owning & managing the few intermittently active servers to remind developers who has the pull in this arena? I sure hope not, but the forum situation is growing out of hand - whether there's a black hole or not, these problems reach far beyond the black hole and the off-topic sections. Nevertheless, if the devs line their Chess pieces up, we'll have no choice but to do the same. This is an inclusive community, not Developers vs. Players. Those of you I spoke to in private should've been jumping for joy at the fact that individuals like me were personally reaching out to you to help find feasible solutions - because you do have a complex job that is non-compensatory. So, as to why you didn't accept any help, I'm unsure.

The fact that the silly movement, administrators, and developers can take an irrelevant pastime such as "The Black Hole" and prioritize it as the community's most pressing issue is absolutely ridiculous. Too much moderating, not enough developing. Priorities are misaligned around here. Not enough time or motivation to develop? Understandable, but in that case you folks should pass the torch to those who may be willing (if they are adept), not remain around to breath down everyone's neck and play "bureaucrat." The "issues" that moderators and admins have been dealing with lately on the forums are issues that they themselves have created or blown out of proportion - most of the things people do to annoy Empty are a reaction to his own provocations. I liken this to drilling a hole in the bottom of a sinking boat to "let the water drain out." This is in part due to the inability of certain developers to handle due criticism of their contributions, and in part due to inexperience with successfully moderating forums in a way that promotes community growth and relationship building. I don't mean to sound preachy, because nobody's perfect, but this place was reasonably intact 4 to 5 months ago and now it's a circus.

I've always tried to lend a voice of reason, but you guys must have your ears clogged with Scout juice... The suggestions I offered were relatively simple, would have made people happy on both sides of the fence, would have kept people in their respectable capacities (e.g. never suggested Empty be removed), and would have been effective at solving the problems that plague the forums. It also would've rendered the "democratic movement" charade inexistent, which would be a blessing for all of us.

I don't care whether we have a black hole category or not - I care that the black hole surpassed every other more-important and more-relevant matter. It is a disgrace and it should be alarming to everyone that our priorities are so out of alignment with reality.

So, may we please hold a discussion about resolving the distrust and the heated "disconnect" that currently exists between players and moderators? The current course of action by the moderators isn't going to work unless they wish to find themselves knee deep in guerrilla troll threads from clanners, disgruntled veterans, and people participating in that silly movement.

​

Thanks,

-J Shandy`

 

lol, before I even read this I have to applaud your effort on these pictures.

 

The Shandian Road To Progress, his proposal to Brutos and published by the democratic movement, can be read here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NXOFF88N, he had a pretty good idea in that before it was shot down.

 

To reiterate a point of Shandys - the Black Hole is surely part of the community, whether it is about Empiresmod or not, and by deleting entire sections, you are reducing your user base who come to participate in those sections.

And Grantrithor: No-one is gonna read that, you should know this community. Just bloody split devs and mods up like the old days when Bodrick, dizzyone and ^Dee^ moderated the forums. Things were peaceful because not one of them made stupid threads, and they kept everyone in line, whilst the actual developers went about their business /actually developing/.

 

Admins run forums so you do what they say or get banned, simple autocracy.

Kinda all the information I need/care about when it comes to forums.

 

round of bans it is then

 

Of course, Dee deleted tons of topics and posts, too and she was so hated she was forced out of the community. She was a precursor to Empty, not someone to be looked up to. Bodrick and dizzyone were fine.

And the Shandian Path to Progress was written to split developers and mods (that's the general idea of it).

 

Admins cannot be wrong because they define right.

 

I think you are slightly misguided on your history. Dee was quite loved by I would consider a majority of the community. I was there.

 

Keep your pseudo-philosophical ramblings to yourself, please. People want to change the situation existing right now, there's no time for isolated musings. Read this, Chris:http://bsid-clan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/281-blackholian-state-news-network/page__view__findpost__p__4877"

 

Yeah I liked dee, sort of, don't actually remember much about her but don't remember any hate really.

Ok I'll stop being pseudophilosophical and individualist and read your pseudophilosophy about how individuals have the right to change stuf-ohwait...

 

dee was one of the best admins ever. It's only mr die who doesn't like her

 

fine, Admins define right from wrong, but moderators should live by right, and not do wrong, when attempting right. I was banned once for breaking rule 1.00 (posting for a banned user) but no where in my post of ban was there evidence relating to a banned user, same with bitterjesus when he posted on behalf of the UUAA, there was no evidence relating to a banned user. It's wrong when it's not right, moderators have to follow rules as well for when they administer infractions and bans.

 

I do seem to remember she was a good poster certainly.

Only admins get to say whether mods are doing right or wrong because only admins can do anything about it.

It's very simple, whoever has admin rights is god of the forum, they have control over everything that happens, set all the rules, and are the only ones who get to make decisions about who gets banned, what gets removed, and so on. Of course they can also choose to delegate that to other people, but it always comes back to them.

So all that really matters is you do what the admins and mods say, or get banned, or possibly get banned anyway given that mods may be allowed to do that, or you can leave. Also note that just because there are written rules does not mean mods have to follow them, what matters is simply what gets enforced, if mods can do what they like and admins don't care then that's the rules, tough shit.

Whether or not you like the idea doesn't change that it's the case.

 

I've been in many a forum community that had a section that was allowed to run free. It was successful, the forum was successful, and admins left the forum *ALONE* unless it basically broke the law or was seriously NSFW. Even excluding threads blatantly insulting to someone else, would still leave a florishing happy blackhole and community. The very root of the problem is rampant admins deleting threads with no rhythm or rhyme beyond their own damned sensabilities.

 

To be fair. There was evidence, you just didn't know about it. But please, can we go back on topic of sorting out the community so we're all friends again.

 

I still see no problem, the forum is a bit of a shithole but that's mostly because there aren't any real rules enforced. You have to basically call someone a cockheaded shitmongler for about five posts straight before you get banned for it, and my lack of even one infraction is evidence enough that being a sarcastic twat doesn't incur any punishment, which it really should if you want what I would call a 'good' forum.

The best forums are the ones with the most rigorous moderation, you follow a strict set of guidelines and post civilly and coherently or you get your ass handed to you. No compromise, no pansy-ass appeals, no stupid democracy crap giivng people the impression they are anything other than entirely disposable proles who are only allowed the pleasure of the forum's use by the grace of the person paying the hosting bill.

Of course there are exceptions, such as the X3 forums, which seem to simply be blessed with a very good community which is naturally disposed to be nice to each other and civil, and thus doesn't really need strict rules, although they do have them, they just aren't enforced that much. Egosoft forums are one of the nicest ones I've attended, and so I always make sure to keep my posts to a higher standard when I'm there.

So yeah, my only suggestion for moderation changes would be to set some strict and firm rules, and start enforcing the crap out of them, and also ban anyone who complains more than in once or twice in passing.

 

Agreed, all forums have it, Exiled has one Hive Workshop has one Hell even BSID has an area that does not relate to the game.

@Chris
Chris is a wonderful apologist for Empty and always has been. The users are all mad that draconian measures are enforced and users like Dembil and Lawliet are banned forever after making literally one single post that Empty disagrees with? THE USERS ARE WRONG! EMPTY IS RIGHT! HEIL FÜHRERPRINZIP EMPTY!

 

wtf is going on, this mod is imploding on its self
need krenzo to come save us


also shandy, your from texas how the fuck did you learn to write good.