No, no special treatment given out, but plenty of restrictions placed on. "Restrict it to a hobby level?" Please, DO, try to explain that one away. In all honesty, the only way to have religious freedom is to leave religion the hell alone. Let them do what they want on weekends, let your elected representatives or executive officers put whatever they damn well please in their offices or their speeches. Buy a shotgun and defend your property, the American way. Trust us, it fucking works. When the mob hears that click-clack, followed by a thundering roar, they'll run back home to their mommies, where they belong. And in response to JJ45 saying that the kid'll go buy a gun and shoot up a school afterwards, I'd like to note that Klebold and Harris, of Columbine fame, didn't get thrown out of any stores at gunpoint prior to their wonderful little attack. Sandbag: North America is a big place. Do you mean Mexico, the USA, Canada, or one of those dinky little countries like Panama? Now I understand that immigrants don't leech off a society. Indeed, they usually contribute to a society as long as that society itself is already healthy. The problem, as far as I can see, exists when immigrants lack the drive to integrate into their new society. When this happens, they tend to be a drain on the health of the society itself. Sure, they're providing some extra cash flow now, but if their kids can't make their way, you're all fucked in the end. Remember that this is coming from an American. Who else has more practical experience with immigration than America? It doesn't matter what language you spoke before you came here, it matters that you SPEAK FUCKING ENGLISH when you're here (except in your own home, where you may do as you damn well please). You can eat whatever food you like, but please learn how to make scrambled eggs, omelettes, pancakes, hamburgers (grilled), steak (grilled), hot dogs (grilled, other sausage types work here, too, as long as it tastes good inside some kind of bread), turkey and mashed potatoes for Thanksgiving (along with whatever other feast foods come from your country of origin, as long as you bother to find out which taste good with turkey gravy), etc. Don't worry, you don't have to learn the cuisine and the holidays and such right away, but please at least TRY. Every time I see an immigrant to the states fire up a gas or charcoal barbecue on the Fourth of July, something inside me comes alive with happiness and sings the praises of whatever awesome dude it happens to be! Even if he's cooking things improperly, he still auto-wins. I could go on longer about how some immigrants are damn awesome and others kinda suck, but whatever, it's 60 AM and I've been up all night. I'm gonna go take a very brief nap.
It's true, whether you find that hilarious or not. It's happening because it's possible, and practically even encouraged by the combination of the modern welfare system and the lack of border control we have nowadays. The situation here is much like Rex described it in Denmark. A welfare society cannot work without proper, strict control on immigration. Indeed, there are a lot of great immigrants. Immigrants from European and especially Asian countries usually have a good work morale. I have liked every Asian immigrant I have ever bumped into, I can't remember anything negative attributed to them. There aren't many, though. We could use more of them... and by all means, they can 'take my job' if they want to, as long as they work for and contribute to the country. This is what I'm talking about. The state needs to take control and put education and childraising back on the right track - pun intended. This is what I would do, altough by your and others' standards I would go extreme, introducing militaristic social discipline and what not. There's a contradiction with this 'justification', and it's the fact that the purpose for guns is created by a problem that shouldn't even be there in the first place. The problem shouldn't be fixed by ignoring or shoving it away, it'll just go elsewhere and keep existing. When everyone has a gun, well sure, one could imagine that gun-owning criminals no longer have an advantage over other people... but that's an illusion. The fact guns are so easy to obtain and so common in the American society provides more opportunities for criminals and potential criminals. Get your crazy law system sorted out, start disciplining your children, increase surveillance, security and police forces, and somehow change your gun laws so, that you can't buy a goddamn bazooka from the nearest grocery store.
by restrict it to a hobby level, I meant that it should be something they do on their own time only. Here in Denmark we give them special extra breakes and rooms to pray in. This is done both at many schools and jobs. Now if I ask if could get another break to do something else everyday..... like a thinking break or whatever I would be laughed at. My idea is that if we just dont show any special consideration and let them know we wont take any shit, then they might integrate. I think it makes them feel special and like they are right about everything. Therefore a TOTAL separation of state and religion would be nice. I also say that people can do whatever they want on their own time at home, no matter how disturbing I might find it. They can wank to pictures of tractors, I dont care as long as it doesnt effect me in any way. About the shotgun..... I would get arrested for discharging it and for threatening the people and get some jail time + they would take my hunters license. The gun laws around here are very restrictive. Handguns are almost purely held at a firing range and they are hard to get even then. Shotguns and rifles are somewhat easier. The hunter license test is harder than the theory part of taking a drivers license over here. Months of study and 50 questions about all our hunting laws and so on and I think it was a maximum of 5 wrong answers. Then theres the actual range judgment test and gun handling and a final shooting test. You have one error in range, but any error in the rest and you fail/start over.
Meh, if you want to turn and say 'whatever, the usa is stupid and bull and bla bla bla', that's fine. Every country has their bad points, and I was merely seeing how you english fellows were talking about some of the stuff that is not right in your country, and pointing out that I guess that part of the world is no more perfect than this part of the world. I can't think of anything I can say that won't come across as insulting, so I'll just leave it at that.
Thanks for your wonderful stereotype there. Any American here can now tell that you have neither been to America, nor have you done particularly good research, if any, on how guns are obtained here in the States. First off, and you probably already know this, you can't get a gun at any grocery store. In fact, I know of no stores which contain both lettuce and shotgun shells. Actually, that combination might be interesting, I'll have to remember that... Anyway, sure, yeah, you can buy guns in the "sporting goods" section of Wal-Mart, but those are all handguns, hunting rifles, and pump-action shotguns. But that's not what comes to mind when the average person thinks of guns in America. When they think of guns in America, they think of things like TEC-9s, AKs, M4s/M16s, Mac-10s, and a host of other bullet-hoses. Those you need to go to an actual gun store for. In most states, this means you need to provide proof of citizenship, proof that you're not insane, proof that you're not a felon, proof that you've never committed a violent crime of any kind. In most states, you're not allowed to actually carry the weapon with you. In the District of Columbia, where our wonderful national capitol is located, it is currently illegal to even have your legally-purchased weapon assembled, even when locked away in a box with the ammunition in a different room. And on your surveillance society thing... yeah. We were fine with guns for close to two hundred years without Big Brother watching us, thank-you-very-much. Too bad I don't have the study handy that labeled the US as the most surveilled Democratic society. In all honesty, guns themselves aren't the problem. Most gun crimes here in the US are linked to wonderful things like domestic violence, gang violence, and drug wars. By the way, those last two items? Many of the weapons used under those headings happen to be obtained illegally. Yep. Crazy law system didn't help anything there. And by the way, it's not crazy. It makes perfect sense to any American. I really suggest you spend some time living and working here, it might help your understanding of the American mentality. In response to the REX "hobby level" thing: Oh my, they give them special rooms and breaks? Augh, terrible. I see no reason to legally mandate that. That kind of thing is between the employer and the employee, not between the employee and the government. And that sucks that you're not allowed to use a firearm for self-defense. Do you actually own property, or is it an apartment? If it's an apartment, I can understand not being allowed to fire off a shotgun when an angry mob comes up to the door (too easy to hit someone or something). But if you live on actual property, that sets off my good-old-fashioned American BS alarm. Which is to say, your government has a stick up it's bum.
This i'm fine with (with a qualifier) - if you've gotta pray five times a day due to your belief, then sure...but generally speaking, you should take it out of your own break. If you need to pray 3 times while at work and you have a 1 hour break, then split that break into 3 parts of 20 mins and make it up that way. There's no reason why people should have extra time off due to their faith, but equally, there should be no problems with people dividing their breaks like that - allowances should be made, but not inequal allowances like extra time. That's actually what comes to mind when I think of guns in America. It's scary that you find that normal. It's scary that all Americans don't have a problem with that...and it's funny (actually it's more like I could cry) that you guys don't see that as a problem. You're all like "hey there's no real evidence of a link between ease of gun acquisition and gun crime"...yeah right, you're living in a "cigarettes don't cause cancer" dream...and your goverment is doing a great job of hiding it from you.
U all need to watch all of these espcilly number 12 (the best lol) 13 I lold on all of them :p. http://www.zipperfish.com/category/toons/yaafm/
That was pure satire, an intended exaggeration for the humorous value of it. Oh darn... so I could only get my hands on some harmless, useless pistols and shotguns, but unfortunately not the latest prototype of the top secret military purpose super destruction rifle, the Xalgatron-790-BC9. Well, I guess taht sorts it out. What can all these armed robbers possibly hope to achieve without the Xalgatron-790-BC9? Guns kill. Whether you are able to effectively combat the SWAT, blow up tanks, and take down helicopters with your armaments or not, you can still commit a crime with any gun, much more easily than if you were unarmed. ...assuming that angry mobs are a common problem in Europe, which they are not. However, seeing what is happening in Denmark, France, and elsewhere, that might become reality soon. But it hasn't been like that for ages.
About the breaks. Its not a government made thing, but im not sure if it is not a special right. It was more of an outrage thing that led to it some years ago because they got fired when they refused to work, since they HAD to pray. That led to this special consideration thing. I went into the massive basement under the school a few times and found a room. I asked what it was and that was the praying room with that directional marker thing and all. Apparently the school was somehow forced to have that. The head master just never told any of the muslims that we had one:p. I LOLed so hard when he told me that. Anyway they also have that thing about not being allowed to pay a interest on loans. They have special arangements here for that.... cant remember what is it Sharia loans ?. Now that is total BS. Also the multiple wife thing and so on. And about the guns. Yes this is a somewhat big property. But you need at least uhmm it must be about 1,5 acres and well outside city zones. The attitude towards it is that guns are for hunting and sports target shooting and nothing else. You are not allowed to shoot trespassers here. All guns with no exceptions are registered by the police. Also most people have never fired a gun here. I have never seen a gun shop ever. Only large shops that only deal with shotguns and rifles and those are rare we have one in a city of 30000+ people. All guns in your home are also required to be kept in a high grade safe. Then theres also bans on any ammo above our nr. 4 shotguns shells. 00 or is it buck shot? and slugs are illegal here + full metal jackets. Also no semi auto rifles that have more than 2 shots in them. same goes for shotguns maximum 2 shots. Pump guns get modified to meet this requirement. Also rifles with detachable mags have been outlawed I think you have to have it permanently put on. I may have missed some restrictions that I cant remember. People dont even consider getting a gun here, even pepper spray and tasers are a no go. Same goes for butterfly knives, spring ejected blades and knives with folding locks and knives above a certain length also requires permits if you are to carry them around outside your own property and lets see its only a little less than 3 inches. But then again there are some 80000+ registered rifle hunters here, with a bit more than 100000 rifles. Lol if this country were ever to be occupied the insurgency here would be nasty, as that is 80000 people who have passed the test. 5 shots at 200m in a tiny circle . Then comes some 800000 shotguns if I remember correctly and we are only 5,6 million people in all with children, women and the elderly. Out of those people we have about 600000 immigrants.... some 10% I guess. Overall this is a peace full place we rarely have above 30 murders a year and it is VERY unusual for one to go unsolved. But those punk ass second generation immigrants with their aggressive behavior ruins the peace. The worst thing is that they have adapted to the GANGSTA street thing and listen to rap music with their gangsta clothes and bling . They then go on to blame society for their fucked up behavior. They are very undanish and yes I hate them.... a lot. A few years ago a new biker gang called black cobra started and they are going against our Hells angels and bandidos groups. Those are the worst of the worst danes and if they are threatened too much they will use guns. There was a period of violence called the rocker wars here, where they used AT rockets, handgrenades and we had several shootouts. Now black cobra are fing around with those guys and there have been a few incidents with guns.
The "gangstas" truly form the most fucked up subculture I have seen. Somehow many kids come to think of these rude, undisciplined worms as "masculine" and "cool", which is really sad. They desperately need to be put in their place and made to acknowledge how retarded they are. I have no sympathy or mercy for the attitudes they hold, and I hope the government actively tries to eliminate their subculture... I just wonder when and how was such utter shit born? What my father has told me about the youth of his childhood, "ganstas" and other crap cut from the same cloth were unheard of.
I'm not going to contest that people who are shot by guns have a tendency to die. And yeah, sure, it's damn easy to hold up a bank when you've got a gun, I'll give you that. But do you know how many times here in the States a bank gets held up by a CHOCOLATE gun? No, really, I'm serious! Or a stage prop replica (one of the high-quality ones that's damn hard to tell apart from the real thing unless you can read the word "replica" on the side). Believe it or not, but your average criminal, your average thief, doesn't want to kill anyone. That's an unacceptable risk for them, an unacceptable elevation of the situation. In case you haven't noticed, but usually when a convenience store gets held up and the guy behind the counter pulls out even something as small as a stubby (but God forbid he have an artillery piece like a .50 cal Desert Eagle), the robber has a tendency to run as fast as his legs can carry him. Sadly, sometimes the robber makes the dumber of the three choices and decides to fight with the clerk, which usually creates a tragedy for someone. People also, however, hold up banks and such with knives. Yes, friends, knives. Pocket knives, like the Swiss Officer's knife I have that's sitting on the desk next to my keyboard. The knife whose scissors I use to cut my toenails. The knife that I'd probably forget about were someone to suddenly take exception to me being alive were I walking down a dark alley somewhere. This knife works better at slicing apples than slicing people, as far as I can tell. Yet somehow, when confronted by even such a small problem, convenience store clerks and bank tellers have a tendency to fork over large sums of money. Thus, as we can see, the big difference between guns and knives in this example is that guns just have a greater possibility to: 1. Make the robber consider a different line of work. Like flipping burgers. It's safer. 2. Have someone on one side or the other wind up dead. Now, the area of gang violence, drug wars, and other such things is an area that I can't really talk about, since really I don't know anything about it. As my best guess, I'll say that people will improvise, even in the absence of firearms, as they've improvised for the last few hundred thousand years (see the formation of modern civilization). Oh, sure, fewer people will wind up dead, there will be fewer random deaths from drive-by shootings and such, and that's definitely a notable goal, but the number of dead among the members of the actual street gangs would probably remain relatively constant. Now, on to the Rex business (and yes, JJ45, I was specifically referencing the presence of mobs that Rex is currently having. I do not condone putting the Fear of God into people randomly): Anyone sensible here in the States, even in states that allow you to shoot trespassers (you usually require signs that warn those people) knows that you don't abuse this ability by shooting some door-to-door salesman, the poor guy's just trying to make a living. You don't shoot a Mormon who's trying to convert you, he's just trying to get to heaven. You don't shoot the Girl Scout who's trying to sell you cookies, she's just trying to learn about capitalism. You shoot the weirdo who runs onto your lawn stark-naked and tries to rape your dog. You shoot the guy who comes up to your door waving a firearm of his own. And even then, a warning shot is considered polite, so the person is at least given a chance to run away and get back on public property, where it's the local police department's problem. I in no way advocate the use of wanton, random force. I do, however, advocate the use of force in extremely rare scenarios, like making sure the guy trying to kick your door in isn't going to rape your wife or your daughter. A kid who's just using your lawn as a shortcut when getting home from school does not warrant the use of anything other than your voice. Anyway, I've lost track of where I am or what points I still need to respond to, so I'm gonna go play something.
You cant shoot someone who is raping your dog over here or setting fire to your car or smashing your house with a hammer or whatever that doesn't put you in imminent mortal danger. That will get you murder and jail. There was an incident last year I think were a shop owner in Copenhagen had been robed 5 times and the last time they shot a hole in his desk with a shotgun. He then got an illegal handgun and the next time they came and pulled their guns he emptied it on them as they ran of. They didn't die, but they got some ass injuries. I cant even remember, but I think he is in jail, but I cant remember how much time he got. It is very unusual so it was in the news for weeks. Anyhow about gangs I really dont think they would kill as many of each other if there was no guns. If you take away the guns they lose their special instakill power, and then all they are is fags in stupid clothes. Their confidence often lies in their guns. It takes a lot more effort to kill people with knives and other stuff. Anyone can be badass with a handgun, but far from all can actually get it done the old fashioned way by going medieval. I think gangs would turn into groups of posers and smaller hardcore groups who would kill. Thats how it is here where handguns are rare. I wrote a report about US gun laws as a final report on my b level. Mostly because it was easy to write a lot and it was either that or some other boring crap about fat people. Anyway the per capita amount of gun deaths was insane in the US compared to the rest of the so called western world. I think the US kills accounted for about 45% of reported gun deaths from the richest 36 nations in the world. I especially remember one year in the 90s with almost 40000 dead and that seemed like a lot when I considered that my town only have 30000 people. Theres a lot of people in the US I know and a lot of the dead are properly gang members and armed criminals, but still that is a lot.
While I understand the point you're making, comparing handguns with melee weapons is just completely ridiculous. What you're basically saying is that there's more difference between a pistol and an automatic rifle, than between a pistol and a knife. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but that argument contains zero logic. So, if you really believe knives are all that powerful, then don't you think you could defend your home with one? You have, mentally and physically, a whole different level of power, control and confidence while holding a gun, in comparison to some stupid pocket knife, it's plain simple as that. While I could go on and explain how killing with guns is entirely different to killing with blades, I feel you should be able to imagine it in your head, if you think of yourself holding a knife, and then a gun. It takes a lot of balls to threaten anyone with a knife. Guns incredibly lower the threshold for potential crime.
What the fuck has happened? The discussion on these forums never used to get this pissy or unintelligent. Also, Re: the entirety of this thread:
I've been thinking of that "extra breaks" thing, and it's kinda odd... when someone applys for a job, imagine this is a REALLY competative job, you're certainly not meant to make any judgements or decisions based on their religions. so if someone says "i need to pray five times a day and by law i need extra breaks", you're meant to ignor it. but if I (athiest) walked into a competative job interview for a decent jobs and said "i demand extra breaks", i'd be turned away, and for good reason! it seems unfair that because of your personal opinions one lot of people can get extra...
Part of me wants to mumble strange things about power disparity between two individuals in a confrontation being the prime motivator in the forking over of the cash, and thus that guns have nothing to do with convenience store robberies, and that the number of convenience store robberies will probably stay the same regardless of the presence or absence of guns in a society. That same part of me wants to ask JJ45 very nicely to read what I write a little more carefully, and not try to read too deeply, as he is quite capable of missing the point and twisting words against their meaning. The rest of me wants to get back to the all-important task of trying to get laid.
About guns: Canada has 3 million people armed with guns; and we are talking long guns as well; we have the US selling us their guns too; and we still don't shoot eachother much like the US; it is not that we don't have the guns, or the avalability to some... We just don't shoot eachother for reasons like humping pets.... Immigrants: I came to Canada 9 years ago from Russia, My father has a huge Russian accent, and has a PhD in mechanical engineering; he couldn't get an engineering job for over 5 years. Now if you say that he refused to integrage; I will laugh and forget you ever said anything. The thing is; because people with mindests "Wholy shit look, they are diffrent from us, lets alienate them" there are people who are over qualified here in Canada but have trouble getting any decent jobs because they are "Immigrants", and this polls over to the people that came to the country because they thought they could live a better life. Now imagine when that country is full of people screaming the same thing "Get out, we dont want you, you are trash", just because of that you will never be given a chance, and if you try it will be hard to move foward. About extra breaks: Does that mean they have a lesser workload? Does that mean they have extened deadlines? I go to a University that has a large muslim population; the university does everything they can to accomidate their religous needs, and I am fine with that, people are free to follow what ever faith they want. But when it comes down to it, is their exam any diffrent from mine? Is the proffesor marking their paper diffrent, because they could have left the lecture at a certain time because they needed to pray? No. Nothing is diffrent to them, only people are shouting "This isn't fair" at the end of the day they still have to complete the same workload as everyone else... On Nationalism: People want to live with people like them. Seems right, and every "Ethnic Culture" wants and pushes for their own state. But if theese whims were pleased, you would have to redraw the map every week; and it will not stop and the map will continue to fragment. We have reached a point where NO ONE can say "I am this one ethnic stream and proud of it", no you are not, you are a mix of so many bloodlines, that any boundaries that you draw to distinguish yourself are null, people move around, people have babies, and those babies grow up to blur the lines even more... Screaming at a certain group saying "we dont like you" has never resulted in any positive results, it ends up in people killing eachother... **** The new members have brought politics to Empires like never seen before, if you thought Mrdie was bad; oh boy :p
