Script changes ----- Empires 2.11.0 "Devastation"

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Sgt.Security, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Hello community,

    We are well on our way to the next step of Empires.

    Except for script changes, there are a number of things that will be presented to you in the next patch, but we'll focus on script changes in this thread.

    Currently, there are a few issues with the gameplay, we have implemented a few ways to attempt to solve them.

    Let's head straight into the changes.

    Bullet points :

    1: Several new 3-slot weapons & researches.
    2: Chassis researches time have been extended, heavy tank cost increased.
    3: Infantry will survive a mine with health upgrade.
    4: Infantry will receive a little more resist against vehicle explosive weapon.
    5: Arty will deal actual explosion force.
    6: HMG & NFHR buff.
    7: NF CV will be stronger than BE CV, due to its size.
    8: All engines will be able to output a little power when overheated, except for standard.

    This is not final.

    This research will get you "Salvo Homing ML" and our new "Improved Homing Missile Launcher".

    This research will give Gren RPG 30 more damage, for grenadiers to have a little more power in mid,late-game.

    This research gives 3-slot UML and 3-slot salvo ML, aka Heavy-duty ML and Advanced Salvo ML.

    This research gives you 3-slot ranged cannon, aka Heavy-duty Ranged Cannon.

    This research gives you 3-slot Guided ML, aka TOW Guided ML.

    This research gives you 2-slot Railgun.

    This research gives you 3-slot Railgun, aka Overcharged Railgun.

    This research gives you 3-slot HE cannon, aka Thermobaric Cannon.

    With our new 3-slot weapons I would like to delay the time it takes for comm to rush heavy tank.
    So it would be more of a risky play to rush heavy tank.

    Other than that, we can extend the length of early/mid game.



    3-slot Homing ML. (not salvo)

    3-slot Guided ML.

    3-slot UML.

    3-slot Salvo ML.

    3-slot Plasma MG.
    Note that this does not require an additional research.

    3-slot HE cannon.

    3-slot Ranged CN.

    2-slot railgun.

    Higher damage so it matches other 3-slot weapons.
    30 rounds are a little insufficient as railgun has a pretty fast cycle time.

    Previously I boosted the damage from 80 to 82, as an "experimental" 3-slot cannon, now other 3-slot weapons are coming in, I would like to give it actual 3-slot damage.

    Note that Thermobaric cannon has 425 radius.

    Homing ML locks-on a little too fast, this is also to make Improved Homing ML stands out.

    Make 2-slot Guided ML less intense.

    Because now arty cannon deals significant damage, it would be good to add some sort of "indication" that you are getting hit by something big.

    For reference, nuke deals 70000 force, so this should not be too much of an impact.
    It generates too little heat, given its long cycle time.

    So the max ammo would be a multiple of clip size.

    80 bullets for scout rifle is pretty much the same as infinite ammo, scout can be a lone wolf so it needs more ammo, but not that many.

    Gives NFHR higher average damage(not peak damage as it is already high enough).
    Also increasing its accuracy while the user is standing.

    HMG has a ridiculously long reload time, I can't touch reload animation so I decided to give it more sustainability.

    Also it's HMG, its bullet should be a little more devastating.

    I personally played quite a few games where the difference between the size of NF & BE CV actually made a difference.

    NF CV is extremely easy to rush, BE CV on the other hand is much, much harder to rush.

    But I am not gonna make BE CV weaker, because CV really isn't strong in late-game, so I decided to make NF CV stronger.

    With new 3-slot weapons, heavy tanks should cost more.

    A tiny nerf for Composite armor.
    Regeneration is Composite's prime selling point, and makes it stand out a little too far.

    I wouldn't want 3-slot HE cannon to be the ultimate nightmare of infantry.

    Also yes, infantry will survive a mine with health upgrade & full health.

    I don't care how much you think a mine should 1 hit-kill infantry, tell me how fun the game is for a new player when he died to a mine 5 times in 2 minutes.

    I personally witnessed that, that is so much bullshit.

    I wanted to make it so that mine will no longer 1 hit-kill, health upgrade or not, like one of Spartacus's patch, but that's a little too harsh, so you can say this is experimental.

    Fixes the fact that it doesn't really cool when idling, and arty is always idling.

    When you are overheated by something, the game is pretty much over for you.
    This 5% power will allow you to at least do something(although not much) with your tank, so you are not just a perfect sitting duck.

    Rifleman will basically take roughly 1 more damage from each bullet.

    We can look at why rifleman dominates infantry combat :
    1: 30% resist.
    2: Individual skill. (For example, I'd still get a lot of infantry kills as an engineer.)
    3: Class skill. (health upgrade..etc)
    4: Weapons with much higher DPS.

    I can't do anything about 2, but I can certainly do something about 1 and 4.

    But don't expect a huge nerf, rifleman is supposed to dominate infantry combat, if we take that dominance away, rifleman would be practical useless.
    I believe that 2 modifier was supposed to guarantee 1-headshot-kill, but that's not enough for rifleman with health upgrade.

    Sniper headshot is very difficult, if you can do that, I'll give you that 1-hit-kill, like with mortar.

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  2. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    ugh upgrade grenadiers again.
    also dont like more weapons since its just more stuff to not research and ignore while buffing/nerfing the same two weapons
    homing ml already sucked
    interested in seeing what buffing the nf cv ends up doing

    FUCKING MINE RESISTS ONCE AGAIN. YOU DID A TOPIC ON THIS AND THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS. NOW YOU JUST RAM IT THROUGH.
    LOOK AT THE VOTES: https://forums.empiresmod.com/index.php?threads/are-mines-too-powerful-against-infantry.20095/
    50% WANT MINES AS IS

    security thinks just because he waits 8 months that everyone is going to forget the results of this poll. what a load of shit
     
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  3. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    First, it's really not like we received enough votes.

    Second, 50% want mine to stay as it is (...7 guys?) , 9 guys also want mine to deal lower damage against infantry (85 or 105).
     
  4. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    btw in that topic said he gets to determine what is a valid reason
    the votes dont include every person, but they reflect the population. thats what votes are for. i love how if it was 75% for changing mines with 7 votes you wouldnt be saying what you're saying now.

    from the earlier topic
    the change was tried once and reverted. interesting to note that candles was FOR sparatcus' change and then was against it and reverted it
     
  5. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    I never even saw that mine thread on account of having quit the community for a bit, like a lot of people did during that time period.

    I saw a new player die to mines at least 10 consecutive times. Or rather, mines that I placed in the exact same spot every time he ran over it. I would argue that this is evidence mines should be made weaker against infantry, but I would also like to point out that if you put a hamster with a piece of food that shocks it, it stops attempting to grab the food after about five times.

    I dnnno how I feel about some of these changes, but I haven't had much fun in Empires in so long I don't really care.
     
  6. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    maybe he saw it as clearing it for his team, because its not clear how to defuse and its easy enough to repair the damage done to buildings by mines. the guy in this example would just die to your second mine, or someones slight touch from a weapon


    there was a great suggestion in that topic that everyone ignored; that mines be disabled when defusing so that noone trips it and kills everyone. now why was that? hmmmm. an easy fix to a problem that practically only happens on escort and when your team is being overun/stacked against

    e: ive ran on mines before just to clear them. this only makes clearing them 2x easier for me
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  7. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I wish there's a more elegant solution to "Gren RPG sucks ass in late-game". (while NOT making it OP in early-game)

    But nope, this seems to be the easiest solution, also I am putting it in Mechanical so you have to get that at some point.
     
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    You and me both know of a way to do it in a way that's easy to understand and incredibly passive, but I guess the thought of a little more bookkeeping is too much to handle.

    I'm past the point of caring when it comes to script updates. All I know is nf cv buff would make hobbes the happiest person in the world if he still played.
     
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  9. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Can we make armors and engines more unique? Such as, 3phase has high Torque, Nuclear Fission is fast, bio you can move regular speed while overheat, Advanced coolant = greater cooling, Gas Turbine... idk.

    Armors as well. Can we make them unique once again to certain resists?

    Tanks right now feel like Giant cardboard boxes. The feel of driving a tank is just, missing. It's non-existent when an infantry can kill you quickly and your armor just melts off at the sign of any damage. Can you PLEASE fix the whole "Drive in, take 2 hits, give 2 hits, both retreat" aspect of the game?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  10. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I know and I am not gonna go with that. That is also not straightforward from a player's perspective.

    Armors and engines are unique.

    Given a certain scenario, even the worst armor is at least 70% as effective as the "best" armor. That's exactly what I want.
     
  11. Solokiller

    Solokiller Member

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    Maybe let the grenadier's RPG receive upgrades from ML research? Could do the same for the mortar getting cannon upgrades.
     
  12. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Please add a change to also buff NFAR.

    BEHR and BEAR are both better than the best of what NFAR can give you. Makes no sense. Make NFAR stand out in something.
    BEHR stands out in close combat and very high single bullet accuracy ( not recoil but accuracy is pin point ). BEAR stands out long range, NFAR stands out in litterally nothing
    its just a fucking shitgun same as NFHR but you changed that
     
  13. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    No, neither experience nor script is telling me that.

    NFHR&BEAR were truly shit, but I wouldn't say NFAR is shit.


    Yes, but then I'll have to put it in Electrical.

    I decided to put Gren upgrade in Mechanical for 3 reasons.
    1: You have to get Mechanical at some point, no exception.
    2: Mechanical does not have any weapon.
    3: If I put it in any other tree it would probably make the tree too attractive. Biology doesn't fit.
     
  14. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Cause you have been playing a lot of infantry? Or empires in general?
    Newsflash BEAR is fucking godlike. Everyone whos good at rifleman just goes BEAR and owns. NFHR was super shit NFAR is shit, BEHR is good and BEAR is godlike. Im pretty sure tony, joy and other people who play rifleman often ( not you ), can confirm what im saying here. NFAR is nowhere near the level of BEAR and BEHR. It's basicly Every single NF rifle < any BE rifle
     
  15. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I rekt'd Tony and Joy face to face so I don't know what you are trying to express here. It seems you just kill newts enough and you'll be the best rifleman.
    Are you too forgetful to remember Sgt.Security as Rifleman?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  16. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    So you're bringing your ego into your developing? Great dev. It doesnt matter if you rekt Tony and Joy, they are good rifleman for the standards of what you are suppose to dev.
    I thought we stopped developing for scrims and more for pubs so saying you rekt vets cause you super l33t skilled isnt a good reason to not nerf BEAR and buff NFAR. It just means jack shit.
    Everyone here has been complaining about how strong bear is and everyone dying from range in 3 shots especially the noobs are dying to it cause they dont run into cover or anything. If we want to keep noobs from playing we dont want them to die 2 seconds after they leave the rax from 200meters away.

    If you look at scoreboards NF vs BE, BE rifleman always seem to have more kills compared to NF counterpart.

    So how about you take your head out of the sand with your Im the best rifleman attitude and fix it for the new players dying instantly due to Joy Tony me and others with BEAR
     
  17. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Lol I just reread both posts. I basicly said Joy and Tony are great rifleman and can confirm my statements about the NF rifles being shit + you havent been playing empires alot and especially rifleman. The first thing you bring up is how you're better than joy and tony ? What are you even trying to accomplish with that. Great ego mate
     
  18. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Because I said NFAR is good and does not need an immediate buff.

    It's really not like you can't rekt people with NFAR.

    If anything I should nerf BEAR.

    Also script is right fucking there, you can confirm NFAR's stats.
     
  19. Herbie

    Herbie Junior Member

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    Yea I agree with Security, there is no way NFAR needs a buff. BEAR is a bit too strong at the moment. Long range weapons should never be that good especially when most maps have so little cover.
     
  20. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Either nerf bear or buff nfar either is fine ( like I implied in my posts about be and nf weapons ) But in previous post you said bear and nfhr are shit so you are contradicting yourself here.
     

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