Script changes ----- Empires 2.11.0 "Devastation"

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Sgt.Security, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I said, NFHR&BEAR were truly shit.

    I was referring to pre-2.7.0.
     
  2. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I dont understnd why you quoted my postsayingNFHR and BEAR were truly shit pre 2.7. It doesnt have any relation to my post

    then the next sentence you talk about NFAR in the present patch. Makes absolutely no sense
     
  3. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    You read it wrong, simple as that.
    Let's get back on the topic.

    A good rifleman gets a ton of kill is mainly because there's no one on the other side to stop him, NOT because a certain weapon is OP.
    And why can a good rifleman get a lot of kills to begin with?
    1: 30% resist.
    2: Individual skill. (For example, I'd still get a lot of infantry kills as an engineer.)
    3: Class skill. (health upgrade..etc)
    4: Weapons with much higher DPS.

    It's not because BEAR is OP.
    Honestly, like I said, script is right there, you can check them out, there's no huge gap between BEHR/BEAR/NFAR.

    Even if I remove BEAR, people will just switch to BEHR, and they'll probably get even more kills because of BEHR's larger clipsize, that doesn't help at all.

    Maybe I should nerf rifleman's stat, and all rifleman weapons as a whole, not just a single weapon like BEAR.

    Rifleman SHOULD dominate infantry combat, but it may dominates a little too much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  4. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    you wrote it wrong simple as that
     
  5. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    It's obvious that I was referring to pre-2.7.0 because I said "NFHR and BEAR were shit".

    I'll stop here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  6. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    1. [​IMG] Today at 10:17 AM - Reznov:
      So now Scout is officially useless due to no true vehicle stuns and sniper rifle getting beaten by any rifleman weapon? Well great, one class less to play with. Guess I gotta main engineer from now on because rifleman is too easy to play with and grenadiers are obsolete in every aspect except driving a tank. I love this shut down of many strategies.
    2. [​IMG] Today at 10:19 AM - Reznov:
      It is no wonder everyone spectates because all you do is mindlessly drive tanks due to them being the only option to win any game unless the map has high reward infantry holding points or there being a chance of a ninja APC or similiar, oh wait I forgot, no true stuns, nvm.
    3. [​IMG] Today at 10:21 AM - Reznov:
      And yes, I know, CVs still stun-able, but you can't stun anything else anymore.
     
  7. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Got me thinking, why not make scouts have a stun that doesnt work like a sticky stun, you dont have to get close.
     
  8. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Yes, I agree.
    I mean sticky stun is like melee upgrade, it's either too useful or too useless, there's no middle point.

    Unfortunately, a lot of the properties of sticky grenade are hard-coded, so there's nothing much I can work on that.
    The only things I can play with : Damage, Fuse timer, Explosion radius, ammo.

    If I can play with the "gravity" like cannon shells, then I'll be able to do a lot.
     
  9. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Updated with rifleman resist nerf & Scout rifle headshot modifier buff.
     
  10. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    i dont even know why i bother posting in these topics because the most i can do is delay a change for about 6 months. he makes the changes he wants either way

    please keep buffing your favorite class and then giving us small pittances like 1 EXTRA FUCKING DAMAGE
     
  11. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    My favorite class is Engineer, I feel like I said this for 250 times.
    Honestly if there's a pie chart, it would read I spent 80% time on engineer.

    If you hit a rifleman 5 times that's 5 damage.

    Here's the things I did for rifleman :
    I buffed BEAR/NFHR significantly because BEHR/NFAR were outright better options.
    I nerfed BEAR/NFHR's damage slightly after the buff.
    I nerfed BEAR's accuracy slightly.
    I nerfed NFAR/NFHR/BEAR's ironsight accuracy.
    I buffed Sticky grenade's damage.
    I nerfed NFHR's clipsize.
    I buffed HMG.
    I am nerfing its bullet resistance.

    Also, I am gonna say this once and only once : saying that I am trying to buff my favorite thing is worse than calling me an idiot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  12. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Look, I don't think we should call for someone's removal over something as trivial as this, however, I do believe transparency is the key to everything.

    Currently, for this next script version, this is what I WOULD like to see. It brings back some of the olden day fun. The game isn't meant to be balanced, the game is meant to be fun. Forgo balance, and make it fun. Do this, by re-adding unique armors and engines then weapons will seem unique as well.

    For Engines:
    Bio - Perk - Can move while overheated at full speed
    Adv Coolant - Perk - EXCELLENT cooling while sitting still, very shit while moving.
    Fission - EXCELLENT cooling while moving, however it is really really shit while sitting still, also fastest
    3 Phase - Highest Torque, decent speed
    Gas Turbine - Upgraded Standard, very cheap, very short research

    Armors
    Make the armor strong against the weapons in its perspective tree then weak to the armors in another tree. I'm not saying like SUPER strong and SUPER weak, I'm saying enough to make a difference to warrant researching different armors. Vary their cost based on their performance, vary their weight as well. Make everything unique, make it fun again. Balance with weapons will come with balance of armors with resists.

    Weapons - This balance will come into play based on the armors. Really, it will.
     
  13. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't get it, bio already works like that? The only change in recent times is that it has 25 more max heat compared to the other engines. Coolant and fission kinda work like that, unless you mean the extreme version that was in trickster's version. Admittedly we can't overheat ourselves anymore but it still went over like a lead balloon in some ways. Gas is convenient and located next to a decent armor, I don't see a reason to make it shorter.

    What I really don't understand is why you and so many are insistent research is super stale, I see just about everything getting researched in games. The only exception is probably plasma, at least plasma mg and honestly considering how it works as a concept I'm fine with that. If I had to guess a real reason why research can feel stale is quite a few weapons handle basically the same, or at least people use them in a similar fashion. Rails and ranged, he and plasma and now bio cn(in a way), any anti tank mg, we end up using these weapons in the same way because for the most part they handle exactly the same. Yes, there is differences here and there with regards to damage or area effects, but if you ever watch yourself or others use them there is no difference in how they actually get used.

    Instead of asking for making the balance of stuff a little more extreme damage wise we should ask for things that are technically different, weapons that require more thought to use like something that required it to be charged up before being fired or say a gl that launched mines, weapons that change how a player uses them and changes how the battlefield works. Or say a regen armor that basically used heat to repair itself super fast, or an armor that absorbs damage to either fire back at the enemy or maybe activates some mechanism that distorts targeting systems or jams the radar for a second like some emp bomb. How about engines that use heat to activate a booster for emergency escapes(though this might just break maps like turbo used to) or let you simply strafe left or right.

    Missiles are like that, there's quite a bit of difference in missiles and how you use them. If any part of research has the greatest effect on how your game proceeds it might just be which missile you get to round out your cannons and mgs. I know at least when I'm commanding that's probably my biggest consideration to research, everything else is easy to figure out.

    All that said, I know very well the limits of scripting and none of that can really be done, it would require tons of code support. So while this would be a much better change to prevent staleness, it can't be done. For me there's other issues too of the more complicated a item is to use the less likely it will be used correctly which means commanders wouldn't research it. That is the one nice thing about similar items, you can get any of them and know your team will effectively use them, or at least will get something done.
     
  14. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    I understand absorbant is like that, but I would like to see ALL armors and weapons and engines to be like that. It would add variation to the game again, something that is kind of lacking.

    I also see why you say it isn't stale because every weapon gets researched pretty much, but because everything gets research doesn't mean its different. Most weapons now behave the same way, dealing different amounts of damage. A soft "rock-paper-scissors" concept would make it so you could get an armor that is better vs something that you know the enemy has. It would need to say it in the research tree, but it also wouldn't be game breaking if you didn't get it, it would just be a noticeable impact on the game, not a major impact. Engines, armors, and weapons all behave similarly, that is the change that is requested.
     
  15. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    I think you should be able to choose different types of body armor,
    Like one good for stopping high speed projectiles, others for overpressure/explosions. So infantry could have a small but measurable improvement to survivability vs one or the other.
     
  16. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I think we need to implement trickster logic more and make the game fun again and not super duper balanced. Stacking is going ro fuck your balance anyway.

    I say we kick out security and make donald trump our leader. Donald Trump for president, I mean lead scripter.

    Lets have a hashtag #MakeEmpiresGreatAgain

    Ow wait wrong one #MakeEmpiresFunAgain
     
  17. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    No paradox. Security is doing a fantastic job with the scripts. More options are viable now than I've ever seen before.

    I can agree with more armour variation though... Especially in the weights... Maybe regeneration at 14 and capacitative at 16? The rest of the armours are fine...

    @Lazybum
    As for the idea of charging up cannons... Rails anyone? That would be the kind of weapon you can charge up and make stronger... Increase damage to double on a full charge...
     
  18. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Give me a post, just one, with me saying rifleman is my favorite class.

    Also reported.

    I see making up lies is what you guys have to come down to.

    DocRabbit claiming that I killed the population. I took over on Dec 2015 and we released 2.7.0 on Jan 2016.
    http://steamcharts.com/app/17740#All

    and this CRITAWAKET guy somehow found "most other posts" with me saying rifleman is favorite class.

    Before anyone here wants to bitch at me, look back at 2.6.9.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  19. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I dont know if you guys realized but my post was a joke, I thought that was implied with the donald trump for president and make empiresgreatagain hashtag? I was parodying the elections.
    Security yesterday ingame you admitted you are getting mad and annoyed really fast cause of the job. It just happend here once again. Now readd me on steam cause you didnt get the joke.

    for the ignorant
    [​IMG]
     
  20. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    Security, I am sorry you think I meant you alone has killed the poplulation. That is not what I meant. What I meant is the vanilla style of weaponry/armor/engine where nothing is tailored is what is killing the mod. It just so happens you hold the keys to the machine, it was not meant as a personal attack against you, and if you took it as such, I apologize, as that was not my intent.

    Now that I have read everything in changes, buff NF CV over BE CV, yeah, I can see Hobbes will love this, but really, this is kinda swaying the end game advantage to NF isn't it. I guess maybe more of an explanation of Buffing the NF CV with stats, like more resistance, more engine speed, what?

    Nerfing mines, hmm.... why? The thread I read and the vote looked pretty convincing that no one really wanted this change.

    sticky stuns only affecting com vehicles, yeah, I am in agreement with Reznov on this one, just doesn't really make sense at all. Maybe this has been reverted, don't really know. Like I said yesterday, the will to play Empires lately just isn't there. These changes don't really steer me in a different direction.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016

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