Empires 2.52.1 Released

Discussion in 'News' started by ImSpartacus, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    DISCLAIMER: All changes subject to further change; nothing is set in stone or is permanent, particularly the changes to infantry.

    Changelog:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2014
  2. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    In general, this update was to simplify things. Superfluous resists were removed. Parameters were consolidated and necessary adjustments were made to maintain balance after such changes.

    Every armor previously took about 2.5% of damage as heat. This was any kind of damage. It makes it harder to control heat to target, so it was removed. I don't see this change getting reversed.

    I don't like the bio resistance. Bio used to affect regen a lot, now it affects regen only a little.

    It's clear that there's no consistent way to intuitively handle this resistance so we'll see what happens without it.

    If it's an important resist, then we'll re-investigate.

    I wanted to give more structure to armor HP. It's hard to compare armors when they vary by 5HP/plate. I went with multiples of twenty.

    For compo, I wanted to have more of an actual "composite" feel and less of an "erma gerd, so OP". It's still the best when it comes to HP/weight.

    Reflective was moved to a higher weight class to add additional differentiation and fill out the weight gap between reactive and the other armors. It technically got an HP/weight buff, but it's still lower than compo, reactive & budget on the HP/weight front, so it'll be fine.

    Regen needed some love. It now regens 50% more HP/s than it previously did. I'll be watching this one closely.

    Absorbant isn't cheap anymore, so now it gets to spread its wings. It's a bona fide cannon killer now. It has about 200HP/plate against rails and more than 120HP/plate against ranged. And it keeps your tank pretty chilly against those hot cannons.

    Com armor regens 1HP every second. Just enough so hobbes should have a fresh CV after a few minutes in com view.

    Budget armor is now the cheap shit armor. Stripping away absorbant's buffs balances it out. In general, all armors cost 1 res per 1 weight. Compo costs twice that rate and budget costs half that rate. Clean, nice, elegant. I love it.



    Cannons reload about half as much as they used to. They reloaded way too fast before.

    Medium chain gun is now an actual straight buff to chain gun, instead of a different weapon entirely. That was always a pet peeve of mine.

    Plasma MG is usable now. It used to have the single longest fire time in the entire game, multiple MINUTES when most weapons are empty after 40s. It used to be the hottest weapon in the game by a factor of 2 compared to the weapon in second. So this one looks weird, but it should be more pleasurable to use now. I'll be watching this weapon.

    Improved standard cannon is almost identical to standard cannon except it uses the heat & speed of ranged. I never liked that paper meds could use 2 slots of MLs off the bat, but not 2 slots of cannons. No longer the case now.

    HE cannon needed some love. Its DPS is still the lowest of all cannons (including standard), but now its a bit toastier and has more ammo. Note that it looks like it does a fuckload of heat to target, but it doesn't because of that 2s cycle time. Still, the modest heat-to-target will at least make it remotely useful in tank-v-tank combat despite its horrible DPS.

    Rails are no longer crippled. They were the hottest cannon in the game and could only fire for like 20s on an ammo load. They are still very hot, but now they can fire for a time closer to the other cannons. I'll be watching this one - it likely needs its cycle increased to deal with the heat and its ridiculous DPS.

    For MLs, I made whatever changes necessary to bring all damages to 40 (except for nukes & UMLs). I hated that noobs intuitively thought salvo was amazing when it was really dogshit. Now when you see a missile flying, its 40HP in the air. Simple and clean.

    GLs are tough. I don't like the long reloads and I don't like that GL is useless. We'll see what happens with these.

    I never liked jeep engines.

    I always asked myself, if I made a game with deployable vehicles, would I allow custom engines if the player couldn't customize anything else? No, it makes no sense to offer custom engines and only custom engines.

    So we start with Turbine and stick with it. As a fun side result, it's easier to tweak the handling on only one engine.

    Fission should be fixed. In the spirit of having an engine where you never stop, you literally never have to stop now. Like seriously, you can drive indefinitely. Yeah, it's probably OP.

    Oh and I killed superlights. You're welcome.

    Budget Armor needed a home. I don't like putting armors next to each other, especially if they complement each other, but whatever. We'll see what happens.

    Oh and Turbine got a 30s nerf, but it shouldn't matter too much since I suspect most people will open Advanced Machining anyway.

    To show off what we can do with jeeps, I threw a quick handling script onto the NF jeep. Most of it was Viroman's work and any tweaks on my end are due to the work that Viroman has done.

    Yeah, you're going to feel like you're constantly about to flip, but it's actually tough to do. Oh and you can go around corners sideways because powerslides are in this one.

    If you're a purest and you hate puppies, the BE jeep was unchanged. The NF jeep was the shittier one if you ask me, so it needed the help.

    Expect more handling changes. Some will be added. Some removed. Nothing is permanent and feedback is always appreciated.

    I'm tired of playing district matches that last hours. I suspect that most of the spammable nades aren't really very popular outside of district. We'll see what happens.

    I know Tricksty Poo is cooking up some stuff with concs, so those will likely be back in future versions. We'll see about the others.

    I like using the special secondaries and I figure they oughta be default if they are only available on those classes. If they really and truly are sidegrades, then we can give them to the other classes, right? :3

    The infantry resists were ridiculous. Lots of tiny 10% resists and other bullshit.

    I want to see if we can simplify things.

    Oh and it takes two mines to kill an infantry player now. Fuck anti-infantry mines. <3

    Just having some fun as I learn how infantry weapon scripts work. These will be changing a lot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  3. wealthysoup

    wealthysoup Lead Tester

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    Have you done any balance testing on this at all? Just reading that changelog a lot of the things sound REALLY unbalanced
     
  4. Urknall

    Urknall Member

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    Interesting changes! I like that you drop out scout/sniper rifle and other stuff... they are pitfalls for new players!
     
  5. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    :confused:

    also salvo rifles are shit (opinion) and im not very fond of content removal (nades), but i applaud whoever had the balls to finally remove the sniperrifle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  6. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    In case you don't know, Titanium armor is CV armor.
     
  7. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Yeah, I was especially wondering about the NFHR. As far as I understand it, that's 3 shells at the same time like a shotgun, right? The 3 shot burst of the BEAR are still succeeding shots.
     
  8. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Yeah, the BEAR uses 3 units of ammo per burst and yields 9 projectiles in that same burst.

    Once I know more about spread, I'll be able to make the NFHR a long range shotgun and make the actual shotguns feel like actual video game shotguns. I'm in no hurry - there's lots to do.

    I'm not terribly pleased either, but I need to see what happens.

    I can't pretend that I know what I'm doing. I've said it before - I'm literally guessing in lieu of better data.

    If there's a problem, we'll make an adjustment in a week or two.
     
  9. Urknall

    Urknall Member

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    I updated the research tree, everything correct?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Nice, like it. It'll certainly mess with balance but will be a lot of fun trying to figure out the good strategies again.

    We used to be able to add armour to them, so it made sense before. I think this is a very good change, though.

    The problem for riflemen is that the explosive nade is the only way to deal with dug-in troops. Most people don't exactly realise it enough, but a few explosive nades will take down an opposing turret and shake up the enemy enough so that they have to move - ready to be mowed down.

    It's actually a good tool, but rifleman should really spawn with a full clip, imo. Still, I'm not sure how many people actually use the nades like they should, so it might not change anything.
     
  11. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Compo's time is like 150s. That change was made last version.

    Also, I think heavy tanks take 180s. Check the research list in the /scripts folder.

    Also, God bless you for trying to keep that shit up to date.

    This might sound ridiculous, but I considered giving the rifleman seismic nades as well as the engy for that exact purpose.
     
  12. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Most people can't use non-primary stuff properly.

    I can kill lvl3 MGs on the roof of crossroads with seismic grenades, because I can time the explosion perfectly.
    Properly timed grenades can kill people behind cover with almost zero reaction time for them.

    Also I hate you Spartacus, now I can't taunt people by killing them with only grenades.
     
  13. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    That doesn't sound that ridiculous, but the problem is it'd make rifleman super powerful, considering they can deal with infantry so easily. There'd be a lot less reason to take engy too after things were built, and we don't want that.

    Though if it was at all possible coding side, what might be good would be to give all classes the ability to deconstruct - at the same rate as they build. So it'd still be really slow, but they'd still be able to affect buildings and everything else, without having to give them ammoz.

    That's possibly the best idea I ever had. Why am I such a retard that I didn't suggest that before?

    Anyway, you said you nerfed gas turbine by 30s but you actually buffed it. Not sure if you just said the wrong thing, or did it backwards?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  14. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Wrong.

    Engineer is way more useful than Rifleman, still, even if you deprive seismic grenades from Engineer.

    Otherwise, follow this logic, Grenadier is even more OP.

    With seismic grenades, I'd still NOT pick Rifleman in pub games because it's so fucking useless.
     
  15. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    It's under Advanced Machining now, which takes 60s. So the net change was 30s extra seconds to get nothing but Turbine compared to the previous release.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Security, I'm talking about the average player/pubber. Not the vets. These are the same people who go for the scout rifle because it looks like a sniper. If you can get a class that will be more effective against infantry and have the ability to combat buildings directly, they'll be much more likely to take it.

    Gotya.
     
  17. Vdragon

    Vdragon Member

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    Fix the assault rifle please, it is as usable at mid-close range as the sniper rifle right now...
     
  18. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I see you are describing newbies, not even average players, even though sometimes I can't tell the difference.

    If he doesn't know what a Rifleman can do, it makes no difference, I don't care what class he'll go with.
    If he knows what a Rifleman can do...well, he's not the type we are talking about.

    HE and sticky grenade already possess decent damage toward buildings.
     
  19. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Removing He nades makes no sense. I get not having to deal with nadespam, but this really is fucking lazy way to do that. Riflemen now have ZERO tools to deal with cover, turrets or to help with bringing down buildings.

    Stickies are still one per restock. Booo.

    I dont understand the logic behind buffing UGL. GL ws pretty crap maybe, but i think it has more to do with how the driver cannot aim them very well, they bounce really oddly. UGL was cancerous then, and now has more ammo? Why

    SR finally got axed. Yey, but it was really long overdue.


    Mine resist,,, just no man, noone has the time to 2mine everything. A gren with hp upg being left with a fraction of hp i could get behind as a tool for breaking minefields , but this is bollocks.



    Those are my immiedate thoughs, rest either looks ok or promising.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  20. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    oh wow. spartacus LITTERALY BALANCED FOR DISTRICT

    HE WAS SO MAD AS A SHIT ENGIE THAT HE KEPT DYING TO MINES AND NADES.




    fixing the @0 error is great though, thank you candles
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014

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