Replacement of the sniper

So let me get this right.

We are trying to take a classed anmed SCOUT. Scout in dictionary is this meaning a person sent out to obtain information. Note they said Person, not squad. Now a scout in military terms carries a sniper, or bolt rifle. Giving a scout a shotgun, i think that would make the scout into more of an assassian, or sabotaur class. Im all for weakening the scout rifle, but honestly if your getting headshotted too much, its not the sniper rifles fault. The chicken who sticks his head out gets it cut off. Maybe you shouldent be rushing head first into a open feild? Removing a sniper from a sniper class is like taking the rifle away from the rifleman class or the calculator from the engineer class. I have not heard one reasonable excuse for why the sniper should be taken out besides "i get shot too much". So basicly what you guys want to the scout to be is another rifleman with a different skill set? then why not just ask for more skill sets for rifleman than take away from one class? If someone can give me a reasonable excuse for why the sniper should be taken out please tell me more. BTW real sniper rifles need only one shot. I also see where you said sniper is not suppost to be a long range class, Sorry what sniper is a close combat weapon? maybe you should just reduce range and power make it alittle out of riflemans range so sniper still would have some advantages but also make it take 3 shots to kill unless headshot.

 

Replacement:
http://donmegel.com/Images/scot shotty.jpg

No need to get melee upgrade

 

scouts also used to ride horseback with naught but a spear. but your not going to see anyone rideing horseback here. I just really dont like your argument cause its totally just one sided of fail here.

they are trying to make this a squad oriented game. They want to change this since all scouts do is find some corner to sit in, and do nothing to help their team all game and it is fail.

and the light tank has wheels instead of treads, so what?

dont you mean removing a sniper from a scout class?

this isnt even the issue, scouts never lead the killboards, and the ones that have at some point in time(these times are very few and far between) would be dominating you regaurdless of the class they played. rifleman kill far more players than scouts. hell I snipe scouts with my rifleman rifle cause they are plain useless with their little sniper rifle.

uh....have you fired guns in video games, they never take one shot while in real life, ya its 1 shot. one shot kills from every gun would just be lame.

you missed the "scout" in your sentance again

you dont understand ! we dont WANT you guys sitting in the little nooks of the map doing nothing, we want you running around shooting people and getting shot at, we want combat, we want action, we need the 98% of the scout population to FUCKING DO SOMETHING. As things stand now, whoever has the most scouts, their team looses. even teams with lots of grens can definatly pull out a win, hell even rifleman do alot better and can win with alot of them, engys are the heart and soul of a team win with them anyway. But not scouts, they have a mindset that they have to go hide in a bush to kill an enemy in 5 min, while a gren can kill 4 vehicles and and the enemy teams entire array of turrets in 5 min, or an engineer can build 2 refs a barracks and a VF, or a rifleman can be chargeing the enemys main mowing down all the engys repairs the barracks or turrets or whatever.

this game is all about active manpower if you dont have everyone on the frontline all the time, and your enemy does, you loose(forward apc's, barracks, VFs, etc). scout is what I call inactive manpower, cause the time they wait and dont get that one kill, is time your team lost that they could do something useful. having scouts is like not having forward spawn for the rest of your classes, time spent running half way accross the map from main is time wasted.

 

Wanted to start to write but yes what keef said, manpower.
In the financial world a company would sell the scout because
he isnt cost effective.
Most people that argument that want the scout to stay as
it is are people that see the game as they want it to be not
how the game really is.

 

Whenever we get a sniper class you can go defend it, but until then we are regretfully stuck with the scout

 

Ok so i accidentally typed sniper instead of scout, Maybe they should give the scouts more squad based skillsets like intel showing where enemys are from a far but without setting up a radar but would only have like a 60 sec duration or maybe even (Sorry for somewhat ripping bfbc) placing a tracer or tag onto a tank or even the cv with a distance rifle shot. Maybe scouts could even take ammo and health from an enemy armory? I'm just saying i absolutly LOVE long rifles. And yes i am a squad player, if i see turrets at a choke point i will sap them. I will also make it apoint to sap an entire base, Then i sit at the back of their lines marking main buildings for arty or even tanks to hit like the rax, vf, radar, ref's. I am a squad based sniper but i just feel being punished for a few bad drops of oil in a ocean of fresh water isnt just. I truthfully dont see many scouts in my games most of people i see are riflemen or engies.

 

saping building is unproductive
sniping is unproductive
everyone can spot targets

 

Then how is giving a scout a shotgun gonna help if he just keeps same skillset?

 

what ocean of fresh water? all ive seen is the ocean of oil with a few drops of water. hopefully they've stopped going scout after loosing so many games, the idea that scouts are useless generally sinks in pretty early for people that keep playing the game.


EDIT:

by forceing him to actually fight near his team mates rather than sit back and do nothing.

Look its not like scouts are totally useless, you can definatly use them situationally. But like every class, you dont have to sit as that class the WHOLE GAME. It is not uncommon for me to switch class 10 times in a round, someone says "APC comming up west side!" well gee lets go gren real quick and own these fools. they get an apc near some front like and infantry are pouring out? well gee lets now go rifleman with stickys and mow down their troops and sticky the APC. What a happy story.
lets say you get an apc close to an enemy base but there are a couple lvl3's up the hill giving you hell, your buddy in the apc spawns as scout sabs MG turrets and you both run up to the barracks and engy starts throwing nades AS the scout sabs and quickly decons the structure before anyone can even kill spawn.

Sabbing DOES do a ton of damage but it only does half the work regaurdless. Just sabbing everything does nothing, sabbing helps your team mates kill buildings faster, no team mates and it does no good. and guess what the scout does after the base is destroyed? thats right he changes class to engineer to help build in the new location.

 

i've usually done well with a scout, i come usually near to top of scoreboard when i play scout.

 

well that was a very informative reply.

Look this is also another misconception scouts seem to have, killing someone the just walked out of the barracks when there is no assault going on there does no good. You know why? cause they will just respawn in 7 seconds which means you've depleted the enemys active man power by a whole total of what? 15 seconds once he gets back out there?

And if he's dumb enough to walk the same path and let you shoot him again, he obviously fails and isnt helping his team out anyway therefore you still havnt really depleted their active man power.

 

Strictly speaking every kill a scout gets without dying helps the team one ticket, and killing people in a base tends to annoy them and maybe gets them to devote units to finding you, and if that scout ties up one enemy infantryman he is breaking even, and if he evades that unit while still fighting the enemy, he is being a positive contribution, as he is being effective while his counterpart is not.

If he causes the enemy to get a vehicle to hunt him down, every second he stays alive is helpful, as he is tying up an enemy vehicle and preventing it from actually fighting.

 

Empires doesn't takes place in our universe, their dictionary is different. Also, it's just a game, and we don't care much about realism.

 

keef about your sabbing only does half the work. that is true but it isnt true as well. sabbing a VF causes all the vehicles made come out with half health and armor( ? on the armor my memory is fuzzy been a while since i sabbed somthing been a tank jockey lately) and sabbing a rax causes the infantry that spawn there to be affected negitively ( im thinking half health as well but idk for sure again been forever since a sabbed) and we all know what sabbing the radar does.

so really sabbing an enemys base is usefull because they will not roll out tanks for a while. and if they do they will have to stop and repair them. and their infantry that spawn will take longer to get on the battlefield. allowing your team to take advantage of the longer process your enemy has to go through to get out of their base ready to fight. then you have more res then them.

but anyway. i agree the sniper scout is rather useless but i dont think that is because of the people or the gun it self. i think its because every other gun is just better than it. its the same reason people dont use HMG roflmen other guns are just better. the ridiculous accuracy coupled with the high volume of fire is the problem that causes guns that lack either one of those traits to be left out. ( ie. ranged rifle low volume of fire hmg low accuracy. assault rifle high volume of fire high accuracy. which would you pick?)
the problem with the scout is that every other class can do alot of the so called scout features. like spotting targets for example cant see where the enemy is? why not just have the scout in your squad spot the targets for your squad then your squad gets the red box targets of where enemy buildings and infantry are. rather than just saying hey com i dont want to think show me where everything is plz

 

this is the reasons why i like scouts both as comm and being one, and imho the best told in this thread why a scout should keep the ranged rifle (and when the scope gets removed, does it get at least a small zoom? AND are getting the other guns balanced? it is damn stoopid how accurate they are at ranges)

 

jäger & andariel, you both say that every weapon isnt correct
because they accurate at long range?
There is no reason why they shoulnd be accurate at long range
else that you want it only to make ONE F****** RILFE USEFULL.

OR WITH OTHER WORDS BALANCE THE WHOLE GAME SO ONE
GUN CAN BE A BIT MORE USEFULL??????????????????????????

If all weapons are better than the scout rifle than that only
proofs that it isnt needed in the game.

Sabbotaging scouts are useless 99% of the time because it
takes 5 seconds to run into a barracks change to scout with
senses, kill him and change back.

 

Actually if anything it is an argument against the rifle.

It only actually works if you're in an enemy base, which the ranged rifle doesn't encourage, the rifle encourages scouts to sit back and camp somewhere, a shotgun encourages them to attack, and a scout operating within an enemy base would be a much more effective pain in the arse than a sniper scout, if you combine tying up enemies and killing the occasional enemy with sabbing buildings too, you get a much more powerful force than just a sniper can provide.

 

You're not a dyslexic, you're just drunk and Australian.

 

i have seen scouts spend an entire game crawling and sneaking accross the map to sab the enemy base to be "useful". It takes an engineer that spawns there less than a min to repair the shit.

 

I've seen a scout get on top of the VF and live there. Sniping people and stabbing it for 40 minutes till the commander just recycles it.

Smart scouts know where the enemy base is and tend to like to go sniping in the areas where there actually targets are.

All your complaints will be solved when scout isn't a default class. None of the suggestions in this thread make scout more useful, it just forces the scout to be another meat shield for engineers.