Replacement of the sniper

Er. I don't think a HMG on the scout would work too well, the damn thing needs some work anyway, It's either massive rape or fail, I've seen people run around classic maps toting HMGs and chewing up infantry without even going prone.

Nice to know a shotty is in the works.

 

A Shotgun kind of turns the Scout into a Assault class, as scouts seems to work with rapid fire arsenals...

But a shotgun may work if you put it in the secondary, while a Light Assault Rifle can be Primary.

I did suggest in one of my posts a LMG with burst fire and maybe a scope, but meant for Spec Ops, like getting accurate shots more often, instead of wasting ammo if you come under attack.

If the rifleman class is more offensive, and everyone wants Scouts to be support, then a Low damage LMG with burst capabilities can be helpful, and because it is a support weapon, it will have less ammo in the clip.

 

How many more times do i have to say it: the shotgun is more of a defensive weapon. It's not like you can use it to attack players halfway across the map, like you currently can.

 

You can kill people halfway across the map as infantry?

Really?

I have never seen this

 

You don't have to see it... Just THINK it. Or do you spectate the whole map all the time?


Duststorm + scout rifle.
Now try that with a shotgun, can you get the same effect?

 

Duststorm + rifle = miss

with a shotgun, of course I'd hit them

 

question one. if the shotgun is a defensive weapon. why give it to a scout? the class with no abilities that suggest it should stay around base and defend.

question two. no other gun besides the scout rifle can attack enemies half way accross the map and even then not really. and since the scout rifle is getting removed. how is that a measure for saying whether or not a gun is offensive. the fact is all guns can be used for both offense and defense it doesnt matter espically in empires where there isnt a clear distinction between what should be used for the 2

 

Immah usin mah shottie to take out that tank. Oh wait...

 

I think the biggest question is what do you mean by defensive and offensive.

You can't shoot people half way across the map but if you are not moving and firing long distanes isn't that mroe defensive (for the base?) With a shotgun you would need to advance in clsoe to blow someone away (thus being mroe offensive).

Some people see Shotguns differently. The first is an assault weapon meant for close range. So running into a bararcks or bunker and clearing it out.

While some view it as a weapon given to people not initially intended to carry weapons at all, and only use it to defend themselves if they are directly threatened.

DIRECTLY FROM WIKIPEDIA (Sorry)
A combat shotgun is a shotgun that is intended for use in an offensive role, typically by a military force

let me find something else real quicklike.

ok no article but I do know of incidents where base personal at Air Force bases (specifically bomb loaders, maintenance etc. etc.) would be given shotguns to do things like blow out tires if they were being threatened (essentially destroying any ability for the enemy to immediately use the bases transportation) and that such thingamajig. Essentually making it used for defense by those not truly intended for combat. (If I find an article somewhere I will link it)

I am aware this was not supposed to be realistic but the only examples i can think of to put the shotgun in eprspective (as a defensive and offensive weapon) were to sue real examples.

TO THE INTERWEBS (finding articles)

EDIT: Dictionary.com rocks
2 definitions that would fit what we are talking about for Offense.
7. the act of attacking; attack or assault: weapons of offense.
8. a person, army, etc., that is attacking.

2 results for Defensive that fit the discussion.
1. serving to defend; protective: defensive armament.
2. made or carried on for the purpose of resisting attack

 

This man is right, duststorm is the hardest map to snipe on, ironically, I've got a lot less headshots on dust than any other map, in other news, I got 2 BEPist2 headshots in a row on duststorm, that was hilarious.

 

The scout, at least in its current form, would be sabotaging buildings deep in enemy territory. If he encounters enemies, it'll be short to medium range, because they're most likely looking for him, so it's good for defensive situations.

 

I really think it would be great to have a knife for the scout, it would make him more of a stealth attack class.

 

So riflemen can roll over the scout with easy now.

 

You're seriously annoying me now, I play scout regularly, and I carve through 100% of grenadiers, 100% of engineers, 100% of scouts, and about 50% of riflemen, I don't ever use a scout rifle, because I know how to win an encounter in close combat, stop using your pissy little excuses so your precious sniper rifle stays.

Get melee upgrade and hide, it's not a stealth attack class anyway, go play TF2?

 

Oh noes, you're getting annoyed by a internet person who doesn't think you should change classes to force them how you want them to play.

If you play scout regularly and never use the scout rifle. Then as a engineer you will also carve through 100% grenadiers, 100% of engineers, 100% scouts, and 50% riflemen with your countless amount of data to support your claim.

I still don't think the sniper rifle is the problem with the scout. Heck, I see engineers run past unbuilt buildings all the time. We should get rid of their guns to force them to always build stuff. I don't support modify a class just cause you want them to play a certain way. I'm all for modify a class to bring them in line. Such as, changing the sniper rifle to 3 hits to kill but keeping headshots as instant kills.

Throwing out the sniper rifle just seems dumb, you can change it to not be the default. I'm cool with that, but you really are taking away part of squad tactics that can be done and limiting the class flexibility yet not addressing the problems.

Being able to snipe engineers building/repairing turret farms is a important part of actually sabotage them. Since you can't shoot the engineers with in the range of the turret farm cause you'll most likely die. Without melee upgrade trying to melee them is laughable.

I just don't see what is this benfit to the scout class by taking away the sniper rifle.

 

Im happy to hear a shotgunis being designed, the first time I heard the sniper rifle was being removed i thought to myself:" I hope they get us a shotgun".

Thats the problem with the sniper rifle, people wander off on their own. Snipers don't work in teams, never. Most snipers consider team play to have a engineer camping next to you dropping ammo boxes.

A proper engineer will lay or duck while building his turret, thus cant be sniped. If you manage a hit there are probably other engineers who will cure him. If you manage a kill he will just respawn and keep on repairing/building. So sniping a turret farm is pointless.

 

You can also throw conc grenades and blind the engineer, or just call in some tank backup, it's a team game, and if you weren't stupid you'd also be capable of flanking, there's plenty of benefit to removing the scout rifle, maybe you'll leave.

 

Shotguns tend to be very short range weapons in most FPS. While in real life, they have pretty decent range. While a shotgun can be done well, it always seems shotguns are more trouble then they're worth in FPS. I know they're getting rid of the sniper rifle and I already lost, yet I still don't see the harm of keeping it as a non-default opition and possible nerfing it to 3 shots to kill and headshot instant kill.

We disagree here. That's the problem with the player, it's not the weapon that makes people wander off it's the player's style. I've been a scout a lot of times and stuck with my squad and pick off those engineers and sticky stun vechs and it works great.

If we're going complain about lone wolf tactics. Then engineers need a vast change. Engineers always go off on their own. There really no reason for a engineer to stay in a group since they can build everything fast enough, they have unlimited ammo, and can drop a turret and a camera to watch their backs.

Engineers should have no guns, thus forcing them to stay with the squad and build every damn thing the commander drops. Blah blah blah, I don't support modify classes to force people to play how you want them to play. Which is what I get from most people's posts about the scout.

A proper scout wouldn't fire on a engineer that is duck behind his building/turret. A headshot is only 'cure' by revive. Which tends to lead to another headshot and another engineer with a empty calculator and possible getting shot as well.

As most people have notice, you move faster standing up then you do crawling. A scout wouldn't be doing damage to the turret farm when he checking it out. He might even sneak behind it and just pop off the engineers from behind. While they use the turrets as walls to protect from grends and riflemen.

How will the scout having a shotgun stop a engineer from using it as a turret? All it will do is force the scout(if shotgun shortrange) to get right next to the turret farm, try and stabatog turrets hoping the purple smoke don't give him away. Then a engineer comes and shoots you, then you shoot back, you lose hid, the other turrets start to shoot you and you're soon to be dead.

The best thing about the scout, is you can choose the weapon for the job. You plan on getting close to stabatog whatever, thus you select the Submachine gun instead of the sniper rifle.

You sneak slowly across and you realize there some jerk who always finds you and kills you. You waste a few tickets trying to get by and starting to notice your efforts are fruitless, you can either change your class if your team is lacking in other areas or you can switch to the sniper rifle and pick them off. I know I've cause a lot of turrets to never be built with the sniper rifle, and have headshot the dude that stops me from getting to the enemy vf.

Will it really hurt so much to let the scout be able to choose one of the 4 weapons? Or get rid of the smg1, almost no one uses it(fine maybe i made that up). Since people are deadset on giving the scout a new weapon, do it. Just make the default new weapon, have a smg, and the sniper rifle. If it's truely as useless as you all claim, then no one will pick it and their be more suggestion on the forums to buff it(or give everyone bigger heads).

I had nothing but bad experience with conc grenades and turrets. I know they're suppose to knock them out for a while but everytime I've done that, the turret is on me before I throw the nade and continues to shoot me after the conc nade.

I only really use conc nades on infantry war maps due to those reasons, I find sticky stuns and smokes to be the most useful of the scout nades. But that's just different playing styles.

 

I've been playing BF2 lately, and whenever i play as sniper i'm on my own picking off single enemies, with little chance of taking out entire squads. The same situation presents itself in Empires with the scout rifle. Instead of keeping that problem, we can change it.