Check your egos and attitudes at the door please? I'd like to see a thread that wasn't a pissing match. So..yeah. I think everyone agrees, in most cases, that comm maps usually suck when you spend 10-15 minutes building crap...then someone jeep or APC rushes and nine mines the CV. It makes comm maps a fucking waste of time, and so incredibly annoying. Personally, I'd love to see that changed; make maps be more than hunt the CV...make them either ticket wins or destroy the barracks, etc. Something that didn't leave rounds ending leaving people wondering what they did for the past 15 min. Ideas...tie commander to a person; not a vehicle. The person's death means you just don't have a comm, not a game loss. Other idea: Tie comm to a building - the commander building. Allow multiple comm buildings, but make them somewhat expensive. Anything to stop the nine mine crap. Thoughts/ideas? Edit: People screaming "THIS DELAYS 1.08" should, well, not scream it. This is an idea for 1.08, but can easily be bumped IMO. I just want to see some improvement....even if that means giving the CV enough health to resist a 9 mine job.
might i add that this is after you just lost a game.. this is a good example of people trying to get somthing nerfed/removed out of anger we drove an apc with HEMG to there base full of grens(things considered overpowered in this RC) not to mention it was a 5 vs 5 game.. if more people were playing i doubt we would of even made it that far.. also you didnt have a comm.. if you did all he would of had to do is drive away.. i think every possible suggestion to stop ninjas has already been disscussed just use search and find the many threads about it.. im not trying to defend ninja's its just that i dont think they are as big as a problem as people make it seem i dont think that ninjas(griefers) will ruin everygame in 2.0 as long as each team is balanced and has a commander with some experience
well ive seen such things several times even though comm was experienced one of our grens managed to go under CV thus being almost invisible and just laying mines under and winning game that would otherwise take much longer so we have won that match but its still strange feeling but it probably should withstand such attack just as flags on some maps shouldnt be capped by single player maybe make it able to survive 8 mines so 1 gren cant kill it but 2 can do it easily(or 1 with engi)
Anger that drove me over the edge for how many matches that went this way? If a 5v5 can't be done, empires is royally fucked. We did have a comm actually. He was yelling for help, which is why I doubled back. And was killed by two gren missiles. To which I heartily agree. One person's stupidity (say, the Comm) or another person's sudden impulse to rush & ninja shouldn't be able to end the round.
I don't think the game should change to nerf something as stupid as this. I think the players need to stop being idiots that do this kind of crap. But since we can't control who enjoys not fighting for any amount of time and just likes moving fast and clicking 9 times to win. Better admin presence would help, but that's player wise, not game.
The command vehicle has wheels you know. Also any RTS player should know to never leave key structures (in this case a vehicle) unattended. Paranoia is your friend when you are a comm!
Fine. Remove nine mine functionality then, and make it so friendly fire (IE, a mortar round, grenade and so on) cannot detonate the mines. Then, the comm will only die if he's dumb enough to drive over the mines (when means he'll die anyway since the slightest movement will kill the CV.) Another option: add L3 MGs to the CV's starting point, giving the comm a reason to not go roving around (a good thing).
I have only had one game of empires in a comm map that didn't end in an APC rush in the first 15 minutes or because no one went comm in 1.08. It definately feels like comm maps are becoming a waste of time to play. 10 minutes of looking at buildings per map is not my idea of fun at all. However, I would like to point out that ninjaing the CV has always been a part of empires and although it makes the end game as fun as handstand diarrhoea, is not an issue that is exclusive to 1.08. The problem lies with how easy it is to pull off quick and early victories. How easy it is to simply rush in to the enemy base and do a lot of damage with little time or chance for the enemy to react.
actually you stepped on one of my mines while shooting at me(which left me with 10hp).. while the cv just sat there and let me place 8 mines next to it i support any idea that doesnt include somthing that will require more balancing.. really we would only be taking steps back why have preplaced turrets when you can just make your own? i've played countless amounts of classic maps that lasted over an hour and didnt end in a ninja or a rush.. if you join the pugs you wont see a game end those ways.. because that is how the game is ment to be played... 5 vs 5 on a giant map like that will not work like it should.. the game isnt ment for small matches like that a commander with the diffusal skill a camera and mg placed near the CV (the mg shoots thru the NF CVS wheels) walls and turrets blocking/guarding all ways to home base a backup base to fall back to these are all easy ninja fixes
Fine, wanna limit the gren? even with the ammo skill, they only get 5 mines. And if they place more than 8 mines (or whatever) the olds ones disappear. That's what I'd like. Sorry, but all you see most of the time is 5v5, and you cannot design a game expecting to see 20 person servers all the time - you plain won't get it. I knew you'd get pissy on that. My AFV was killed in two hits. You can't make L3s that early. maps are land grabs usually...so if the comm has to go gren with defusal (which takes doing since the comm cannot be in a squad) he cannot build turrets very well. Again, this is an early map problem. You won't have that much res - and if you do, a second base will put you further behind in the res, and manpower category. Again, if the comm has to get defusal, he cannot build. And if a server isn't full (gee, that's 90% of the time) you won't be able to have a base bitch and still do well. Didn't know it still did. The NF CV wheels are solid now, AFAIK. Anyway, that'd only be an NF fix, not a BE fix. Again, you need a base bitch, or the comm as a NG, and therefore you don't get defusal.
I see this as a useless thread. Unlike APC rushing, if a gren has enough skill and/or luck to get into an enemy base and destroy their CV, he deserves to do it. It's a legit tactic, and an easily countered one at that.
well im not saying you should use all those things.. plus all you have to do is get out of the cv and join a squad to get the skill.. you could get the turret upgrade skill and have one engy stay back and help build that and the vf/radar/armory.. right now most games are limited because we have one server and its a closed beta.. imagine when its released and there is more servers..\ and im not being "pissy" as you say.. im simply stating my side of this argument.. if you would rather me not say anything and let this thread die like all the others without any changes then fine
Ok, what kind of thread about CV saboteurs would be complete about me? Here's my 2 cents. We have come a long way from the good old days when there were no CV warnings. One of the few things to catch on was the fact that people could attack it, so commanders knew they had the possibility to lose because of 1 son of a bitch with 9 mines and a dream. most of my deaths were from 9 miners and I have to commend those guys. Not because they are team players because it's a lone act, but because I was STUPID enough to believe my team could stop them. They got past my defenses and took advantage of my poor base layout. I know it sucks I know it ruins the game when you work hard, only to be killed because of 1 bastard that got lucky(or skill in the case of Dubee lol) However, I also know how to counter-act these attacks because I know how they work. All you need is to set 2 turrets 1 in front and 1 in back of your comm vehicle, along with your camera. If you ever drove a car, you know that you have to moniter 3 different mirrors, your speed/gas, and the road itself. It's like that ingame. Gotta watch chat, map, mini-map, your own vehicle, and you have to predict enemy movement. The commanding aspect of the game is something not meant for everyone. If you keep dieing because of saboteurs then maybe you just weren't meant to comm. Also if you see someone drop 1 mine and you forgot to get turrets, wait for that mine to deploy then RUN IT OVER!. Seriously. You'll end up killing that stupid gren when only losing 2 plates of armor. In summary, commanding is meant for people who can watch for enemy, research, 2 maps, and who can forecast enemy movement(including saboteurs). If you can't take the heat, then turn it up and roast to death
Honestly, this is not a problem in my eyes. Any competent comm can counter this threat easily. Out of the 70+ games that I have commed, maybe 6-8 ended in a ninja. It is EXTREMELY hard to get into a decent base completely unnoticed. The only time I can see this happening with any regular frequency is if you have a very small team and a commander who doesn't check his minimap very often/doesn't place turrets. I play mostly on the weekends, and typically the server has ~12-20 people at a time. I honestly see maybe one ninja a day, (in around 5-10 games that I typically play) and the average game lasts for 30 minutes and typically ends properly with one team crushing the other. I'm wondering, around when do you guys play?
Empires definitely isn't built for 5vs5 games, just as I'm not built to comm them. Give me a full 15 vs 15 server, and I'm rolling :p
Ninjas are fine; if you move the com; if you place turrets; if you hop out... all of those things can be done to prevent ninjas... Sure, I died to a ninja a couple of times; but this is because I got too comfortable with my team pushing the offensive, I stopped checking the minimap and the radar pings; and moving the com around... I can usualy spot the gren BEFORE he places the mines... So if that gren is able to: 1) Sneak past my front lines 2) Sneak past radar/camera pings/turrets 3) Sneak up to the com without me driving away 4) Kill me if I notice him/Sneak past my own sight 5) Manage to drop 9 mines without a teamate rushing over or myself to kill the ninja I think the gren deserves the thrill of ending the game in that way; as that is by far NO easy task... Please tell me how many times you managed to ninja the com? Myself; not alot; I keep getting noticed and the worst damage the com gets is a mortar shot... I usualy end up spamming mines around key structures instead of the com....
Agreed: Some defence and attack tactics are more or less effective given a certain number of players. While i'm against *repetitive* APC rushing, just because once you've proved that works be creative and try something else, i'd say "anything goes" in Empires "it's war dam it!(tm)". On a more personal note i'm not really liking all this pussification talk about "empires is to difficult for me, plz nerf <insert map/weapon/tactic>". One aspect sure is the actual combat but wut i see a painful lack of is leadership and direction on the battlefield, so go on surprise yourselves, work as one (and get a mic! )
