THe joke is if we nerf the brenodi heavy to much or make absorbant to good its possible to slaughter them with a northern faction med
The last days ive played enough games that proved how overpowered be rails are. The similarity of all those games are that in every game be nearly lost but they managed to get rails and at that moment the game turns and nf looses. Be fighted back, but with no need of skill or tactic.
On no map in regular settings are you going to be able to fleet enough heavies with rails or NF full comp heavies... Hell a bunch of light tanks can outkill heavies in that case since you can mass produce them 4 lights or 2 meds against 1 heavy... Hell... No amount of imba is gonna save you if all you can do is field 1 at a time while the entire enemy team is cruising in lights...
Obviously composite rocks the NF hard, but cheaper armors work fine too. As long as you are not using standard it doesn't really matter because at medium range you can hit them with rails but their missiles are slow, inaccurate and just don't do that much damage anyway. Homing missiles seem to take forever to lock on and guided are hard to use. Nerfing railguns doesn't seem like the answer because its not that BE heavies are overpowered, its that NF heavies are underpowered due to lack of a weapon. Also, BE can switch right over to dual HE without any real problems. Increase speed of upgraded missiles or, for a more fun solution, increase the survivability of the NF heavy to allow them to run right up and unload their missile spam and potentially survive. It seems like the upgraded missiles should be able to output more damage then a bunch of standard missiles also.
NF needs to secure just about every ref around the time they get meds or early heavy tanks to stop BE from winning with rails.
I can't remember the last time I saw BE cruising on a vanilla server with heavy rail tanks when they only controlled half the refineries.
Ive played on KM not on mittoes. with a be med you can rape nf heavys the other way around its not possible. (nf med against be heavy) And if you are the uber nf light tank driver that owns every nf heavy, than you are not the average empires player and balancing should always be scaled for them.
Mayama is right, I play on the KM server too. It happens on other not-mistweaked servers too. Killing a NF heavy with BE med is not a problem. Killing a BE med with NF heavy can be hard. The worst thing about BE tanks for me is that they have so few shells, so You must return to base to refill ammo every few kills, this is really annoying. That's very bad for NF tanks to be so weak that they are insulted in the way I just did. Rails are not the problem. HE is not the problem. Double cannon is not the problem too. The problem is that NF have lousy med/hvy tank weapons. NF rockets must be much faster (but then, lets just name them shells?) or they must make a considerably bigger boom (so You shoot it to the ground beside the enemy, like a rocket launcher in quake3).
correct. NF has crappy vehicles in general (except LT). all vehicles are very big > easy to hit. APC has no slot for a gunner. lousy heavy and med. and the argument that you can build more NF tanks, because they are cheaper is not true. they are only a bit cheaper. it doesnt compensate their weakness.
NF vehicles arn't THAT bad. they're not great but they're not terrible. the med's are pretty much the same too.
Maybee its just the steering problem. Ive played some tank combat games recently and in one to one heavy tank combat it seems even. But at larger scale like 4 against 4 you have the problem with the nf heavy that you cant turn fast enough to bring some armor between you and the enemy.
The only thing I can really think of that puts NF into a disadvantage is that when you rush the hills north on emp_isle and the BE do the same thing. If both commanders build a barracks the BE can rocketspam the NF barracks while their barracks is safe behind a wall, thus securing north and maybe getting the edge to win the game. NF can keep repairing their barracks but those soldiers are not fighting so NF will probably lose that location. And about the tanks, maybe the NF tanks take a bit more skill to handle but they certainly don't suck...
true. BE double rails deal insane damage in a very short time (even when u have absorbant). u cant turn fast enough. i think the easiest way to balance heavies is to reduce fire-rate of railguns (or maybe dmg) and increase rocket speed a bit.
Railguns are fine. Honestly, how many times have you used absorbant armor against rails? In all my experience, absorbant is a very good counter for them, but a good BE dual rail can still beat you when you have it. Dual rails are not overpowered. One way to counter a dual rail heavy is to figure out which armor they're using and counter it. This way, instead of being mutually innefective, you get an edge on him. The gren's armor detection is useful here: if they've got 5-6 plates per side and dual rails, then it's probably composite, if they have less, they're probably reflective/regen/paper (you can determine which of these it is by how late in the game it is, and from earlierst to latest: paper/regen/reflective) and many less either reactive or they have more weapons. Also, dual UML's are a nice advantage over BE heavy's dual rails, especially if they're using composite. It's not always easy, but a NF heavy can be a very effective counter a BE heavy.
I agree alot with the barracks needing a height reduction, when you missle attack it its like the side of a barn I can make every last missle from a mostly missle tank hit even with full walls protecting it. alot of the buildings are too tall to protect I wish we could just double or even tripple the height of walls if neccassary. Not sure about the CV. the BE grenadier has a completely useless metal plate over his rocket launcher that obscures alot of the screen the BE APC is awesome for its 2nd person seat, whish the NF had a simmaler APC I found the rifleman BE notch as easy to aim with as the NF cross guess it varys from person to person.
i use absorbant in nearly every game (because BE goes always for double-rail in late game for easy win). UMLs are not very usefull. too slow. upgraded guided ML is much better (and deals more dmg). but missles are not very effective vs BE heavies in general, because they have thick reactive armor in 90% of the cases. how to win a 1vs1 heavy tank fight: with NF 1. have absorbant 2. have upgraded guided ML (HE MG can be usefull to) 3. keep distance 4. keep moving, turn your tank (5. have an engineer to repair u) with BE 1. have reactive 2. have double-rail 3. rush (careful for mines and sticky bombers) u see its much harder with NF. i think it should be more even. BE rocket launcher makes significant more damge. and u get used to that obtrusive metal plate after a while.
also it's the same weapon as the rocket launcher so you would have to remove the metal plate fromt hat one too
I see BE grenadiers with the upgrade fighting off NF attacks quite a lot, it's not easy at all but it's possible. but NF might as well give up when the BE start rolling in because even with upgrade, the RPG only takes down one and a bit armour from a tank. that means you need six shots to take down one tank, provided it's kind enough to sit still, not rotate, not retreat and repair, not kill you in half a second with a chaingun. the BE and NF power weapons (railgun/upg ml) are both crap vs infantry, so the only real counter to a couple of the enemy powerhouses is grenadiers, but the NF grenadier is too weak. suggestion: bring the damage of the NF RPG up inline with the damage of the BE RPG.
krenzo said already that he will take care of that. there is a thread about the RPGs somewhere on the forums. i want to know what devs think about the balance in empires. maybe we should make a list with all the imbalanced stuff to make it easier for them. then we could make 2 seperate lists. one with the things which are confirmed and wanted by all players (i.e. smaller NF barracks) and a list with things that are currently discussed (i.e. the imba BE heavy).
