Current, Future, and Eventual state of script_manifest

That's a problem. You can't have individual people announcing team decisions, because people will assume that the person announcing the decision somehow was the only one responsible for that decision. Go ask a Social Psychologist why, if you really want to. Instead of having an easily fallible person assume the burden of responsibility, everyone in the team should have to equally represent the decision(s). Suggestion: Make some alt account called "Empires Development Team" and use the account only for big official announcements like this one.



........That, and/or make everyone on the team agree on the wording so that you are sure that the community will understand what you mean. If people are claiming that you are removing a feature, and you meant that you are actually improving it, then obviously the community did not understand what you meant.

 

From the original post:
"The reasons a development team would implement a function such as script_manifest only exist due to a lack of scripters desiring to join the dev team, something we will be focusing on going forward. With that said, script_manifest in it's current state will not be a part of Empires 2.25 for a multitude of reasons.

Chief among the reasons we have decided to suspend the feature..."

Notice the use of the word "we". Some are upset because they thought an answer to balance fixes was complete and really it's far off, some are upset because it would have made for better support for custom scripts even though, whether they realize it or not, it would have opened some major security issues. Some are upset because they thought they were going to have developers create a sandbox engine for them to play around in, and that's not what this project is. There are many reasons people may be upset, but I don't think any of the reasons come down to if this was "me" or "we". I also don't care if people think it's me running wild, so long as those I'm working with know that we're moving together I can't imagine why I would go out of my way to cater to people not smart enough to know that if I post "this is suspended" without the other devs agreeing, they would post "no it's not" right behind me.

No one raging would have raged less if I used a different account to say the same thing.

 

Ok, ignoring everything in this thread up to this poing, answer this:

Will script manifest be implemented in either 2.25 or the VERY next version after that?

The answer doesn't require 10 paragraphs, it requires a one-sentence answer.

 

"It" will not be the same as what Kylegar had begun, we have to go back to the drawing board to ensure we don't leave security flaws.

My one sentence answer:
We have to discuss particulars, a system will be actively developed over the next releases; at this time we do not know how much will be in each sequential release, because we have not yet discussed how we're going to accomplish the goals, but a system will take shape.

 

I guess I'll need to rephrase to get a straight answer rather than sidestepping bullshit.

Will there be a system in which the server can define the full scriptset which the client will use ingame on that respective server in 2.25 or the version after?. Yes or no.

And also, what "security flaws" ?

 

I'll sidestep you whenever I damn well please, I don't, won't, and never will answer to you upon command. That said, I didn't sidestep at all. The answer I gave was completely straightforward, considering we're talking about a feature the developers have not yet decided the specifics on. I cannot emphasize that any more. I can't tell you specifically how it will work, and I don't know what you mean by "the full scriptset". If you want to know "will servers be able to set a cvar to pick the folder scripts load from, and they will auto download to the clients aka script_manifest exactly how it was being done"... no, no it will not.

If you want to know if there will be a feature that allows custom scripts in a greater capacity than they are allowed today, the answer is yes. snip

 

Sure, you can sidestep anyone whenever you want. But don't start crying when you get 10 pages of flaming within 2 days of making a thread because you did that. The answer you gave wasn't in any way straightforward. That said, you'd probably make a good politician. You make this thread, saying you're effectively not adding what many consider to be the saving grace of empires, and yet you're sat here going on and on saying "We haven't decided on the specifics", rather than just telling the community what the issues are. Like you don't believe the community has a right to know PROPERLY why you aren't doing it, or why Kylegar's system is inadequate. Want to be treated with some maturity? How about you stop looking down your nose at everyone outside of the development team or your little buttbuddies.

This is the first time in this ENTIRE thread you've actually given us any hard info on the new system:

And entitlement? Entitlement for members of the community who have, despite there being no release for 9 months have continued to create content in maps, scripts and server hosting, without whom the mod wouldn't even be here? Had this been 9 months ago, sure, nothing is owed to the community. But considering the state now, and the fact that people are STILL trying to keep this mod going, even though more and more of the vets (yes, funnily enough the most important players) are dropping out, I feel differently. I feel when something has been promised, and people have put time into this, be they developers or external to this, they are entitled to receive what they were promised, or at least information on the matter. After all, like I said, it's been 9 fucking months. That goes for everyone from Pickled to Shandy, from Blizzerd to Empty, regardless of the way you did it. And finally, stop pulling up the neo-axis shit. I haven't mentioned it once, nor did I mention it when I was in spec with you on the BSID server. Other people did, and other people were spam joining your server after they were banned, but I did neither. So stop trying to discredit me because you're incapable of getting your point across. I don't care if this results in a ban for me, because all you're doing is alienating more and more of the people in this community who have kept it going. And sure, I bet someone like HSM/RKB will come along and disagree with that, but when I look down the forums, and I see people like Pickled getting banned for it, then there really is no comeback. You OR the current developer team as a whole, are simply cutting off your nose to spite your own face. So stop treating the entire community like they're a bunch of dipshits who can't possibly be privileged enough to hear about what really matters with this mod.

 

Well, the current system wasn't tested thoroughly yet. Secondly, a lot more coding has to be done to flush scripts. This is partially my fault, because I thought that work was already done by previous devs. Thirdly, Kylegar's script manifest implementation had some potentially very nasty exploits, like an admin flushing the scripts after a map change so he can play with overpowered weapons (or introduce some hidden research in a tree). Scrims would be pretty lulzy, though.

And finally, there was (and currently is) absolutely no system of determining what server runs which script sets. I am fairly certain the current server operators will do everything in their power to make the ones they're running as obvious as possible, but the many new server operators probably wouldn't. New players playing on new servers wouldn't realize they're playing "non-official" (read: the 2-week experienced server admin overpowered something) scripts, and quickly write the mod off as unbalanced or unfun (cue someone saying how this differs with the official scripts. Ba-dum tish!).

 

Finally. Thanks, that's honestly all we really want to know regarding the current script manifest. It would have been nice if that could have been posted 11 pages ago though. Either way, thanks for the information.

 

That.

If you needed this:
"If you want to know 'will servers be able to set a cvar to pick the folder scripts load from, and they will auto download to the clients aka script_manifest exactly how it was being done'... no, no it will not."

because you couldn't understand this:
"we have decided to suspend the feature"
"The eventual state of the "script_manifest" concept will be superior to what was originally announced. Although the exact 'hows' of it are far off"
"We will develop a method to separate servers running custom scripts from official"

snip

 

Mod train coming in woo woo
EDIT: Ok. Keep it civil...All of you

 

isn't it, choo choo?

 

I made the woo woo sound as I was deleting posts.

hush

 

guys, has this bickering not gone on long enough?

sure some of us feel sad that the thing we (personally, me aswell) where waiting for, THE big thing in 2.25 is not going to be in 2.25, and likely not in any soon to be released release

but then comes the time that you move on, and work with the things you DO have in your control to work with

cmon guys, don't become sour people

 

I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.

 

The scripts

As for script manifest, if the dev team is keeping it out in favor of releasing scripts with additional chassis types, classes, weapons, researches, etc. I have no problem with this. I've read all the posts to this point, and its obvious the dev team has good reason for not implementing it in this release. When I read Tricksters posts I hear the tone of a child pouting about a candy bar that mommy wont buy. If you are so upset, then why don't you put in an app for the dev team? That or stop crying.

I've played empires on and off for the last 3 years, the balance of 2.24d is of course screwed as the Physics branch takes charge in every aspect, no matter which faction you choose to play as.

I've played extensively with Pickled heretics scripts on both the servers that have implemented them, and the balance is much improved. I command fairly often when I'm playing, and the branches of chemistry, electrical, and physics are all very playable with NF now, I wouldnt do the electrical with BE, but thats just old school empires play, so I'm fine with that Be is still predominantly a Physics branch, but i've used chemistry successfully with BE as well. Bio is good for both factions. So I think Pickled scripts do a lot to restore the past balance and fun of commanding Empires. Super lights ftw.

Pickleds scripts are win, and I think you should seriously consider his set for the new release.

 

He has expressed that I "need to keep in mind his works are his intelectual property" and other such ownership claims that make them "off limits" to us as devs. If he has changed his mind I would love to look at the scripts.

 

"intellectual property" is such bullshit, it has only served to slow down artistic development of a civilisation and channelling the spoils all to 1 lucky person instead spread it out over the whole

i think i make it no secret that all my maps and content "work files" i ever made can simply be requested no strings attached, with my maps i often release the VMF file alongside the bsp

 

I hope he reconsiders, the community of Empires needs to band together to make this mod a polished success. Together we succeed, separated we fail.