Current, Future, and Eventual state of script_manifest

lol
<filler>

 

He knows my name! :eek: /faint.
Feeble attempt at levity in a rage thread

 

Problem is devs decide to reply to rage posts rather than the well constructed posts. /selfplugging

At the end of the day the script manifest was going to do a good thing for empires which has been torn down in order to go back to closed development. Personally, that pisses me off as everyone here knows the community is quite capable of contributing as an entire entity rather than a split class system of dev gods vs. players/testers.

So instead of finishing a system which would enhance contributions to the mod where natural progression would prevail, the amazing dev team has gone for a system which would only slow development at this point for god positions.

Rage posts and personal attacks please keep out of this thread, this is nothing more than a massive disappointment, there's no need to make it worse. I hope you're proud.

 

At the end of the day the script_manifest as was being developed would have done some good, but also done some bad. The return on it would have been negative in my estimation, and the alternative which (again) we will be developing will be better, it just won't be ready in a week... then again neither would this unless it was hacky.

It's about directing development, open source is all fine and well but this isn't open source, and "everyone here knows the community is quite capable of contributing as an entire entity" is simply not true. Everyone working as individuals creating whatever they damn well please and going in every direction is not as "capable a contribution" as joining a development team and working with them. Enabling anyone who can figure out how to get a server running to "force" their work into the mod with methods such as script_manifest is not much better. If a chaotic community could be as capable as a focused team, you wouldn't see nearly as many products made by teams, and you would see (probably around 50%) of products made by communities without teams.

The suspension of script_manifest will speed development, it will slow outside modding... outside modding that would be constantly broken anyway which causes more frustration than anything. There is a difference, and the argument that letting servers enforce anything they want upon anyone who joins somehow increases development speed is opposite of the truth or at the very least incorrect.

 

So there you have it. You've just basically said, "Yeah, I hate the idea, so it's never getting implemented".

Now I'd like to put 2 other points out.

1) Anything is better than the current script set. Seriously. We'd genuinely struggle to do as bad as the current version.

2) You're acting as if people don't have a choice to play on other servers. If the scripts suck, the vets will go elsewhere, and the newbies follow the vets.

 

It would increase variety and allowing for a variety of systems would eventually lead to a popular set of scripts. A voting system before round start could be capable of that (or at end of map round). The reason that most teams don't allow the community to contribute is the developers have their own idea, not that a community /can't/ contribute.

I don't see why you would be forced to break anything after each update, surely you would be introducing standards and unless you change the syntax after each update, I really don't see why people would be forced to change their scripts each time too...

 

Personal insults; I win.
You sir, are a self-righteous retard.

Blizz, if the coding isn't as complicated as, say, C#/C++, I'd be willing to try to learn some, then see what happens from there.

 

Empires scripts? They're simple. You just need to have good ideas and the will to get it done.

Yet in the past 2 years the development team haven't managed to get it right.

 

What I want to do is become fluent in the scripting, then take ideas from the community (I DO NOT CARE FROM WHO THEY CAME), mull them over with the fellow scripters, report back to the original thread, suggesting advice/possible solutions. Thence, once an agreement has been made, let the community mull it over. Then add it.

Simple, yes?

*P.s. I am not a complete novice when it comes to code. I've done work with two different languages in the past (Eventscripts for Counter-Strike: Source, and SCAR [runescape botting program]. While neither are considered, "commendable," or what have you, I know what coding is, I know what it means, and I know it's my future).

 

While I agree that rkb is a faggot, I don't understand why you want this script_manifest shit so badly... would just split the community

 

Predom. Empires/scripts. Open files. Experiment. Stop going on about "asking the community, mulling" etc, because that technique never gets anywhere. Just like designing by committee, it takes too long.

And I highly doubt it would split the community, there just simply isn't the mentality for that.

 

What did shit like that lead to? MK2's? Is that where you want to go with infantry weapons, Trickster?
Sorry for any apparent hostility, .

 

predom the current scripts are like

chassis cost "value"
chassis model "value
turret model "value"

etc

 

You'd have to have downs syndrome not to be able to understand them. So I can understand if it's too challenging for you.

MK2s were always a horrendous idea. It assumes the person doing it has half a brain cell in the first place, and whoever thought of the MKIIs didn't. And what do you mean, "is that where you want to go with infantry weapons?" ?

 

You must be taking me out of context, because I didn't say that, and I disagree with that. In fact not more than 5 minutes ago I posted a 6 point suggestion for how to implement mod support. One of the points would be released inside of 4 months and would allow rapid (literally realtime) script changes. I will divulge details after fellow developers have had time to pick at it and we can form a real plan... but to claim I'm saying "oh me no like, me kill, me never reconsider" is pretentious.

I agree anything is better, I'm interested in hopping it up on enough morphene to get us a few months is all, while we regroup and implement.

Eventually yes, but no guarantee it would happen any faster (or slower). The "popular" set though would be using only what is available in scripts at the time of creation, there would be no support for hard-code features, so the scripts would basically only be able to make due with what is already there. That's fine for balance and research, but if you want RPG falloff you're boned.

I'll talk to you over this weekend.

The story I got from Dizzy is that it was a casual mention from Krenzo. I guess he's brain dead, okay. MKII was fine in theory, the problem is the lack of testing and balancing, not the thought.

 

So now you're taking on someone who's never even worked with the scripts because he's going to be easy to dictate to. Nice going Spawwn. God give me fucking strength.

The scripts are fine at the moment. Sure more stuff is better, but we can do a lot right now.

We can redesign the entire research tree.
We can redesign all the vehicle physics.
We can add/remove vehicles.
We can add/remove new models for anything nearly.
We can add aircraft.
We can do a fuck tonne more.

I'm done arguing with this shit tonight. What Dizzy said is right. Server overwriting is going to have to be the only option.

 

Are you planning on converting the scripting system to LUA or Python or something. I fail to see why code support with the current script sets would force them to be rewritten upon each release.

My main problem is that the old focus from the script manifest has been changed to some other random feature when we've been asking for the script manifest for fecking years.

 

i sure as hell do and i couldnt give a crap about who makes the scripts as long as they are good.

The script manifest version compared to the developer-only way is basicly like this:

Lets assume its about apples...
manifest style:
At the start you will eat a big bunch of apples from diffrent brands and you might bite down on one or two rotten ones... yet shortly the public will leave that brand alone due to their rooten apples, the good quality apples however will quickly be heard of by the consumers and people will flock around them.
Over time the good quality brands will set the standard for the apple market, there will probably be more than one brand and they will fight for controll over the consumers... leading to a constantly more perfected delicious apple.
From time to time new brands show up who wants to be a part of the apple market which will have to fight against their rivals for consumers.
Only the best brands survive.

dev controlled style:
You got one type of brand.
Eat the apples from it or dont eat at all.
If they are rotten ur forced to eat the rotten apples, yet they can be high quality too.
However, if the apples are rotten then the consumer will just buy some bananas or mellons instead... leading to a crash of the apple market.

anyway, enough about apples.
even if its manifest scripts it does not mean that the developers cant design their own scripts and set them as the standard... it just means they have to compete with scripts made by others about which one that gets used on servers.
and nothing stops scripters from simply copy pasting another persons scripts and editing parts they think will improve the gameplay.
Its not a contest where you submit your entry and win a prize, its all about having the best possible script.
also, many chefs making one soup does not mean it will taste better, therefor multiple scripts to test is a better option when ideas are split among balancers.
and finally: i cant really give a crap about custom models as long as we get access to the weaponry and research (iow just the tiny .txt files)

 

This thread is full of butthurt idiots who are just butthurt that they can't implement their "own" scripts because they think they are better.

Yes, perhaps they are, however if you are using a mod as your "base" to have the scripts on, then any change to the mod that was intended to balance the game on default scripts would bring fucking chaos to custom scripts which would just bring more fucking problems.

Stop being fucking selfish you twats, and realize that we don't play this mod to play with your shitty scripts, we play it because it's fun and it's grown to become what it is without you and your scripts.

-- SNIP, no need for retarded personal insults --