Current, Future, and Eventual state of script_manifest

Discussion in 'Dev Blogs' started by soundspawn, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. soundspawn

    soundspawn Member

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    As many of you know, script_manifest was an announced solution to some of Empires' main problems, lack of balance, stale/broken research, and missing viable variety within weapons for both infantry and vehicles to name a few. Although little more than a side-effect, another powerful use is the ability to create mods of this mod, something that has shown a proven success in commercial games and would likely lend itself well to a polished or dead mod.

    Script_manifest in it's current state is incomplete and considered "buggy" by the ex developers who worked on it. In reviewing the code briefly I can see it has been very lightly tested if tested at all. As a "going away present" it probably would be okay, but working around it and the set up required server-side to support multiple script sets would be less than favorable.

    The issue moving forward is that Empires is neither polished nor dead. The reasons a development team would implement a function such as script_manifest only exist due to a lack of scripters desiring to join the dev team, something we will be focusing on going forward. With that said, script_manifest in it's current state will not be a part of Empires 2.25 for a multitude of reasons.

    Chief among the reasons we have decided to suspend the feature is that development will be brought to a crawl in regards to content support. Features such as a scout overhaul or additional grenadier options would be left in limbo... If we as developers create the code for new features, it will break the existing scripts, leading to a strong need for an internal scripter or team of scripters to maintain a set of official scripts. If we are to have a team of scripters working as developers and with developers, progress will be made at a higher pace, features will be included immediately with updates, and balance/interesting research would be their primary goal, fixing the issues that would otherwise require script_manifest.

    This list of reasons it hurts the mods continued development are long, much longer than needed to justify removing an unfinished, untested, unnecessary feature. The reasons to include it are valid but apply to a game not about to undergo an overhaul that will break peoples custom work every couple months.

    The eventual state of the "script_manifest" concept will be superior to what was originally announced. Although the exact "how"s of it are far off, the basic premise is that we will continue to migrate sensible settings into the script files for community members who wish to mod Empires, and we will be taking actions towards making the mod more friendly to these custom scripts. We will develop a method to separate servers running custom scripts from official and at that time, assuming we feel we can proceed development without breaking custom scripts, we will revisit the feature-set to ensure that the things the community need to mod this mod are available.

    If at any time the mod becomes stagnant, we will release a solution to allow the community to carry the torch, however so long as development is planned and developers are developing, we need to focus on making the mod the best possible as is, not converting Empires into a sandbox or modding platform.
     
  2. Varbles

    Varbles Simply Maptastic. Staff Member

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  3. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    so whose scripts are you using for 2.25 then?
     
  4. ScardyBob

    ScardyBob Member

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    Thanks spawwn! I disagree with this decision, but I feel better knowing that the devs are still thinking (and planning) to include it at some point.
     
  5. God_Hand

    God_Hand Member

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    Prego.
     
  6. Deadpool

    Deadpool SVETLANNNAAAAAA

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    a valid argument. thanks soundspawn. you are doing great work around here. we all appreciate it.
     
  7. pickled_heretic

    pickled_heretic Member

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    You know, I am a bit disappointed.
    Oh well, we'll just have to go forward with this.
    Underpaid, overworked developers deserve our respect.

    Anyway, let's try to make 2.25 the best version of empires ever!
    Renew development on adding new, fun content, like you have been!
    Every developer in the past has provided excellent balance and content in their scripts.

    All of us remember when in 2.2 when we got horns, right?

    For what it's worth, I support soundspawn in all of his endeavors
    And I wish him and his development team the best of luck as we
    Go forward into the unknown future of empires.

    P.S. read every first letter down.
     
  8. ScardyBob

    ScardyBob Member

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    You, sir! Are no Governor Schwarzenegger.
     
  9. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Spawwn is scared that now he's finally able to have an effect on the games developement, the scripts manifest will take some of that power away.
     
  10. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

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    Before I leave, it is my great honor to present the 'I told you so's.
    I was right:
    and soundspawwnn was a lier:
    thank you, thank you, hold your applause, I'm out.
     
  11. soundspawn

    soundspawn Member

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    No, 3 weeks ago I implored the community to help me find alternatives to giving then later taking away such a feature. The cons appeared to outweigh the pros in all instances, so a discussion was started earlier this week among developers. This is where we arrived.

    Bye !
     
  12. Headshotmaster

    Headshotmaster Member

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    You're leaving? But I thought you were going to remove commander targets and add bots to empires? What will we do without them?

    :(
     
  13. pickled_heretic

    pickled_heretic Member

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    Headshot? You too? Don't tell me you're so fucking brainwashed by that twat that you forgot that you were going to develop and distribute your own set of scripts?
     
  14. Deadpool

    Deadpool SVETLANNNAAAAAA

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    maybe its the horrible terrible attitudes of people who spend way too much fucking time worrying about this kind of stuff that make devs quit.

    ps, read all the letters then go die
     
  15. Headshotmaster

    Headshotmaster Member

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    I still can. Most of my scripts are in the form of design docs and a few test weapons. Because spawn wants to make core changes to weapons and possibly even add weapon types, I'm ok with postponing my set of scripts and instead help facilitate the development of future scripts and script components. A few ideas include changing the core mechanics of the vehicle grenade launcher, and add more weapon variables. On of them included allowing scripts to handle models so you could decide the model/turret depending on the chassis. An idea that you were behind if I recall.

    I think we should see what happens in the near future, and see the plans the devs have in mind before we go flying off the handle.

    I'm still excited about the idea of script_manifest, but its current form is literally incomplete, buggy, and didn't manage all scripts(only vehicle code). It is literally at around 20-30% complete and untested.

    I've been playing empires for 4 years, and I can be very patient when it comes to development. Spawwn has good intentions, and if you ever read what he types, he is very knowledgable, and thinks critically. I know good intentions can lead to bad things, but when I talk to spawwn about the changes he wants to make, it's not totalitarian. Before he came to the conclusion of not spending his resources and time on finishing script manifest, he first consulted the other developers. I may not like the absence of script manifest, but currently its not there so I'm not going to worry about it, nor am I going to berate the devs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  16. Beerdude26

    Beerdude26 OnThink(){ IsDownYet(); }

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    Pretty ironic that Headshotmaster is one of the only persons in this thread that is not insulting everything that moves.
     
  17. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    hey, if you guys are recruiting scripters... i want in!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  18. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    I could probably learn scripting so long as the 'grammar' of it, so to speak, isn't too complex.

    Props to HSM and Spawn.
     
  19. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    predom its actually not that hard to understand

    i would give you an initiation if you like?
     
  20. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I am so disappointed in you Spawwn. Now I think all you're doing, is trying to win a popularity contest with the masses. If you want to do that, just say you'll add aircraft. Don't promise something actually useful and then go back on it. This was your intention all along, and it being half finished is an excuse because you never wanted to include it. What Empty said on the previous page is right.
     

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