[Considering] Allow Destructable Ammo Boxes With Melee

Damn it, you found my weakness... being reasonable.

Okay, you asked for it...
http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=11638

 

and mines

 

t-t-t-too late? *pupils narrow* That means that it might be coming out soon?

 

Mines block?

 

this is unbelievable. Arklansman especially, how can you make such damning comments against the explosive idea?

forget the refinary bug okay, that can and will be fixed in the course of time no matter what is agreed here.

Predom: This isn't 'your thread', and if we're in the process of fleshing out how the suggestion you bring up is implemented then you should be fucking flattered. This isn't a derail and it's not even off topic. There is no obligation to discuss your idea of the implementation or not. Regardless, your 'suggestion' is "fix the refinary bug". We have bug trackers for that, and it will be fixed and was known of before.

So lets cut the refinary bug crap and go to the core of the matter: is the exploding ammo box a fun dynamic or not?

some facts first: as it stands, the ammo box will have the same health as a player. The ammo box is smaller than a player. It will be easier to kill a player than it will be to explode the ammo box at ANY range. The idea that Arklansman seems to have conjured of ammo boxes becoming deathtraps like the explosive barrels in half life 2, which are killed by any stray bullets, is wrong.

You may not have noticed this before, but the majority of times you use an ammo box, you are NOT being shot at. Any situation where the ammo box would potentially be a hazard. In fact, how often DO you actually continue to pick up ammo when being shot? The ammo box does not become a deathtrap in 95% of situations, because 19/20 times that you use an ammo box you are not being shot at.

Thirdly, engineers have walls. simply placing a wall between the ammo box and the enemy means that even in the most dangerous of fire fights, players can rearm without worrying about the ammo box exploding.



Those are just facts. Now, lets go to some softer truths
-Shooting explosive barrels in half life 2 and half life 2 deathmatch to kill enemies is fun. It's even funny to die like that.
-Risk reward is fun
-Players can learn easily that ammo boxes can explode, indeed the concept is easier to pick up than 90% of the rest of empires. If a player struggles to pick up the concept then empires is not currently suitable for them. "Learning curve" is not a valid reason for criticising this idea.

 

I would guess that the majority of the players do this.

 

Logic flaw - Ammo box is static, players are not. I agree that they won't be like barrels though.

Not quite true, but true enough. During base defense you are often shot at while getting ammo. You're failing to take into account that players actually do change their style of play to adapt to the environment. If there is something they can use against their enemy, they will. This means they will adapt so you will increasingly find yourself in combat around ammo boxes.

True. Makes the trench warfare component of Empires a little more dangerous though, considering the Mortar was nerfed for being too dangerous in these kinds of scenarios. It's debatable whether that's an issue though.

Counter fact: Empires players are 'tards.

I'm not saying this couldn't be good, i'm just saying you know how this goes down, we've been there before. Be cautious.

 

Destructable ammo boxes? Do want!

 

considering explosive ammo boxes or meleeable ammo boxes?

(not very neutral: i.e adding a fun dynamic or fixing a bug in a fairly uninteresting way)

 

If you would have to use bullets/RPG (not mowtar or grenades), this could be fun. An ammobox is such a small target that it would be quite hard to hit.

 

That's what I thought... I'm getting shot down pretty hard though.

 

Seriously can you just make it so

Code:

function Weapon:MeleeAttack()

 //Do your melee attack code here

 local meleetrace = player:GetEyeTrace()
 if meleetrace.Entity:IsValid() then
  if meleetrace.Entity:GetClass() == emp_imp_ammobox or meleetrace.Entity:GetClass() == emp_nf_ammobox then
   meleetrace.Entity:Remove()
  end
 end
end

 

Might I just go with my original rant.

ADD MY SUGGESTION; ADD-ON TO MY SUGGESTION IN 2.26

 

large red text gets your point across better than prose.

the sad thing is I think that might be true.

regardless, there are a dozen easier ways to solve the bug. The issue here is the interesting dynamic or not

I didn't think the cases against the explosive ammo boxes were very strong....

 

I agree, but they yell a lot to make up for it.

 

I thought I made a pretty good case. I really don't want to be in a position where one person screws over their entire squad by dropping an ammo box at the wrong time (whether it's me or the person next to me.) It just feels like it wouldn't be very fun. I mean, when a building gets dropped and instantly killed? You really feel it in your gut. This would be even worse, and would lead to a lot of inter-team rage.

Losing is never fun, but I think it's much better to try and make it so that most of the horrible things that happen to people feel like things they could have prevented... when you just feel helpless with no way of avoiding it, or when you have something bad happen because a teammate screwed up instead of you, that's not so fun.

It's also much more fun, to me, when I lose because it feels like the enemy did something awesome. I don't mind saying 'gg' when the enemy is just plainly playing well. When someone on my team screws up badly and we lose because of that, though? Much more rage, much less fun. And I think, from the usual reactions I see, that many other players feel the same way.

So I'd rather see as few ways to screw over your own team as possible (even accidentally.)

 

Implement this without the explosion. That wouldn't change gameplay that much.
If the boxes DO explode when damaged, why the hell are you placing them where the enemy can shoot? Ammo resupply is not done lying in front of three turrets and a tank.

 

You obviously have not played Far Cry 2.

 

I don't see why exploding ammo boxes are a bad thing, the explosion should be less of a lol u ded detonation and instead generate a lot of splash damage and bounce players around a little.

 

Empires 2.25: In-Field Grief Edition