No, I didn't...I killed him, ran into the rax to change to gren with defusal, and the rax died before I could do it. Fine. You wan't an easier fix? Can't detonate if not very close to the mines.
ok now time how long it takes to do that.. then time how long it takes to throw engy nades and deconstruct with repair upgrade.. im sure its quicker as engy the gren use to be able to put 8 mines in the middle of a base and kill everything in the whole area.. now its only 1 building i dont see any thing cheap about that edit: also if you drop 8 mines in a barracks and get killed they have like 8 seconds to go gren with diffuse.. plus you can diffuse mines faster then you can drop them..
I wasnt saying its a cheep tactic , jus confirming that 8 mines are able to kill a building. My take on things like this is "the whole point of the game is to kill/destroy the enemy and its stuctures so why does everyone wanna nerf the stuff we use to achieve our goals. yea so a gren gets to kill a rax or a vf, thats the whole point but then hes outta mines an has less chance of surviving than an engy who has an mg for defence an who can deconstruct buildings,use grens. bla bla anyways i think all the classes are cool as is.
Rampants got a good idea with the proximity to detonation. This would eliminate that cheesy feeling you get when the gren is successfully killed but he still completes his mission with 1-2 mines dropped after he respawns. I do see Dubbie's point. The base defenders need to have the mind set also that... "shoot that gren planted explosives we have to find them fast!" Its always fun to try and find the mines. ITs a great feeling defusing 2 or 3 so when the gren does go droping his mines he gets nothing True enough a gren can defuse faster than drop but to find and defuse takes considerably longer. It definitely increases the need for base defending. so there it is <shrug>
Now to give my 2 cents on cheap tactics... What you call cheap tactics are just several legitimate ways to win a game. If you want to win, you're better off to either dominate and assure victory, or win extremely fast to keep the enemy from making their stand as all. Even spawn camping can be a perfect and legitimate way to win. Why? if you're spawn camped, you're most likely spawning at the wrong fucking place at the wrong fucking time. Also, that rax is going down soon anyways so stfu and die with honor. Just caused you spawned the moment before the rax went down, doesn't mean you need to scream "bloody murder! They spawned camped me!" (it does however mean you are unlucky, and fail through circumstance) This doesn't count for non-commander style maps though as the spawns never change. It wouldn't be right for someone to nuke a spawn on escort over and over. You wanna know the actual cheap tactics? Swapping teams to disrupt the enemy. Such as wasting resources on a lot of useless tanks, draining tickets with "kill" in console, hopping in a vacant comm and recycling shit.... There's also building turrets under a map, going through a map, etc.... Basically, anything cheap is anything exploitable. If you can't defend from an APC rush, or from some guy mining your comm or VF up the ass, doesn't mean it's cheap...it means your team can't defend themselves and should just bend over to the opposition. On a final note, the objective of every real game is to win(in a legitimate manner). If you're whining because you lost and the game was cut short or you did so bad you didn't have the as much fun as you wanted, then you need to get better at the game. Play to win, Work for fun. (that's more like a dollar than 2 cents, but oh well)
wasnt the point of the thread just to suggest things that should be avoided for the first little while of having 2.0 out? Ie whilst they may be sound tactics which can be stopped, they could put new people off.
This thread was a response to the suggestion of certain tactics that should be held back for the first week in fear they will drive away newbs. But instead of holding off for a week, they should be changed. Reason being if there are things that people think should be avoided for one week, chances are they will be at the top'a'da list of reasons why people quit playing empires. All the Noobs arn't lining up at the door waiting to get in first. They will trickle in for the following months. Its simply a discussion. No wrong or right. Leave the emo statements at the door plz.
Listen, if we pull off these so called "cheap" tactics in the first few days, the nubs will catch on. That's the first step towards empires "enlightenment". We were all newbs once, and we all remember the first time someone pulled off this tactic... APC rush? I saw that on the O|ne server. Lost every game they did that until I figured out how to stop it(that's right, I'm smart enough to stop an APC rush, I must be a fucking god) 8 mines? I didn't do it, but back in the very early days, me and some buddies experimented on escort with it...knocked out those buggers in uber heavies. running an apc into an enemy VF? this was in 1.1 and I was in the passenger seat...I was like "WTF? Wow...that wasn't a bad idea..." my point is, we all know what we had to do in order to win. Nubs will have to learn in time, and the ones who leave empires after several games of losing are not the ones you don't want to play with in the first place. they are most likely CS fucktards and want to have an UBER SCORE LAWLS!!!111one11
this game is just not like that. you could say that nukes on escort were part of the game. you could say "deal with it, with teamwork you could probably do something, bitch". but that's not what this game, which is currently in developement, is about. instead of just accepting parts of the game that arn't fun as "part of the game" we can change the game so it is fun, always fun. you know why they removed grenades from team fortress 2? not because they were not balanced. not because it was unfair. but because they wern't fun. and that is what we are trying to create. a fun experience. we can and will have fun if the game is different and such tactics are curbed. and that is why the cheap, unfun tactics that lead to dull or unfairly quick games must die.
Winning is fun. When you're a commander, you don't think of how the other team can have fun, you think of how your team can win like rockstars.
I really like that you're out to win. we NEED people like you. if everyone was a total commie then when the real assholes arrive the game mechanics would be too concreted for us to change.
Let's all ban losing, because losing isn't fun. And death. Maybe let's take all the guns out and give everyone a can of spraypaint so you can tag up resource points instead of shoot people, because having to go to the barracks isn't fun. It's not supposed to be automatically fun for everyone, you fight for fun! YOU WANT FUN!? FUN LIES IN VICTORY!! i.e.: I don't enjoy sucking at Empires like I do, but I still play. You don't gotta' nerf everything that isn't fun because if you do, things will eventually get too one-sided.
Sandbag's got the idea here. I wonder if that whole "it sucks but deal with it" concept was around when 107 was released? Now I know no game has infinite longevity and maybe its just the subpar graphics/performance and bugs that keeps the 107 servers empty most of the time. But what if it was people who got tired of NF LT rushes after 5 mins of almost every Commander map? Or the infantry weapons that were so nuts? I for one avoided 107 escort. If you look at a BG2 server, PKV, complete cheesy assed mods, but even they have people playing almost around the clock. I'm not knocking 107 here just using it to make my point that maybe theres things that will ruin this game for people who arn't already addicted to it. And maybe everything is fine, maybe there arn't any issues. Great thats even better. But if there are, lets get them fixed before they kill a really great game.
See i just don't agree. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not trying to remove things that are fair game. I personally do have fun having a great infantry or tank battle and loosing. I'm not trying to "nerf" loosing. but loosing can be fun, or it can suck. loosing can make you want to jump right back into the game or it can make you want to quit. winning is always going to be fun. I don't understand how things can get one-sided if the boring parts of a game are culled
You were doing all right up until this point. Personally, I like to win by absolutely crushing a strong enemy, if they're weak and we just roll right through there's no point - that's a hollow victory. I want a game where I have to batter the enemy to death with my hands because he just wont give in, not this "I mayaswell lie down and die...there's no way we can win" kind of attitude. Fight me dammit! We'll see who is the best by skill and teamwork, rather than who can have a stacked team and better weapons. And if I lose...well then, you'll be damn sure i'm not going down so easy next time.
you're damn right! i know exactly what you mean by that. i just mean that you probably wouldn't stop playing a game because you won by the same boring strategy time and time again, even if it wasn't as fun/risky as other stuff
not true, depending on mine placement you could do considerable damage. In RC32, in a small game on canyon, I took out a BE barracks, VF, and radar, simply by placing my mines in the open, as close to dead center as humanly possible between the 3 structures. I'm pretty sure they were at full health as there was no base assault going on, no smoke, and I had snuck in for the first strike against the Brenodi home base in that match. its quite hard though, I was fortunate enough to have my team draw the enemy west. short version: if a base is empty, a gren can kill nearly the whole thing with strategic mine placement.
