Anyone else dislike the new sabotage?

i also kinda like the grenade idea


like fusing sabotage with the sticky stun grenade, if you use it on vehicles you already know what happens, if you use it on buildings they become sabotaged

 

I like it. Makes you pay for ignoring places.

 

Do you really want to have to sit around defending a ref in the middle of nowhere?

 

as was said, just put walls around your refs, and they become scout proof.

As for bases, if you don't notice the buildings were billowing columns of black smoke for a long enough time for them to eventually decay into scrap, then that is a deserved destruction. with sabotage as it is, the only way it will destroy anything is if it is a distant turret or a desolate base that lays forgotten. The only thing you need to counter a sabotage scout is awareness of smoke.

 

I don't but I bet there is a lot of engineers that do.

 

Saboutage actually makes the scout part of the game.

When I or my team notice a building is saboutaged, a mini-rally goes on where you get a few people spawning in that area or running back to the buildings so they can save most of them. It makes you have to pay attention, like dubee said, and it can quickly turn a rushing tumult into a faltering stream, as people come off the front lines to repair the bases further back. It's an utterly brilliant gameplay mechanic actually, as hsm pointed out.

However, there are a few things that are a bit bothersome which shouldn't be. First is the old and tired "saboutage-repeat" where a scout is lodged somewhere in your vf and constantly saboutages it after being repaired. Usually happens when some smartarse decides to rub a defeat in the losing teams faces, rather than hassling the winning team. Dunno if it still happens in 2.24, but my guess is the ability is still there...needs to be a cooldown of some sort if there isn't one already.

Second thing is that it kills buildings pretty fast now. It's almost as, nay maybe more, dangerous as the lone engineer, considering the whole base can be saboutaged and the scout just sits back and watches while everything burns around him. It's probably a little too fast, not a lot, but a bit. Sometimes buildings die before you can get to them, even if you notice pretty quickly...which seems...quick. Saboutage should punish the unwary, and also those focused on where the battle is, and not paying attention to their other bases...it shouldn't be a super problem for the aware. So from that point of view, I don't really want a warning, because then you can't saboutage a small staging base on the other side of the map (when losing), without someone rolling up in a HE tank and pwning you.

Maybe a proximity alert for saboutage - e.g. if it's near the commander, or better if it's near a radar.

The last thing is...the smoke bug, which I know the devs tried to fix lots of times, and is pretty good now, but not quite fixed. I don't want to hassle the devs anymore, but yeah, that's part of the reason so that's why it's here.

 

Like mashav said
The current sabotage makes the scout seem like hes a good class, but the truth is he is insanely underpowered and just has one very overpowered/lame ability

 

It's completely fucking retarded.

 

Scout Jeeps ftw.

Make the building stay full health rather than dropping to half health when sabbed.

Also, i think scouts should be able to sab infantry, because if you sit in one spot long enough for a scout to sneak up on you and stick a needle in your ass, you deserve it ^_^.

Scout = lols

 

kinda off topic but I think you should be able to "spot" friendly sabbed buildings just like how you can spot enemy buildings. it would make it easier to inform your team/comm of sabbed buildings.

 

The sniper rifle was nerfed into oblivion because it did nothing but annoy the hell out of everyone who wasn't using it, and then for some reason the devs put in this idiotic sabotage, which does exactly the same thing except it is far more annoying and can lose games for people.

 

uh, sab doesnt take ALL that long to kill a building, if he sabs 3 buildings it becomes impossible for and engineer to save the buildings and hunt down the scout, the damage and health of buildings are just too low. And maybe you missed the smoke comming out of 1/2 your fully built buildings, specially after they've been sabbed or attacked. If you think the comm should go around selecting every building to look directly at its health on a minute bases you are seriously retarded.

EDIT: oh sorry just tried it out to get exact times, sabbing a ref actually takes less than 1 minute for a sab to kill a ref so I guess the comm has to select all his buildings every 30 seconds or so AND THEN and engineer has to be able to run to it in time, so we have our time to notice it, then our run time, then the fact you have to heal it asap leaving you vulnerable. Ya this sounds GREAT!

also sabbing a barracks takes a little over a minute and a half, man what a SUPER long time!

 

You can disable the sabotage with just a little repairing, which helps some if the buildings aren't too far apart.
The trick is finding the scout before he sabotages them all again.

Turrets generally do die faster than you can save them, but that's expected.
Refineries also aren't that durable, but they're not much more expensive than turrets and are easier to save. The tough part is finding an engineer willing to pick up the pieces....

 

Frankly, it should just be kept simple - remove the health drain from sabotage altogether. But instead, make it so that it takes at least 500-800 calculator energy to repair a sabotaged building, so that you have to waste quite a bit of time in order to restore a building.

On the other hand, increase the time it takes to sabotage a building by a bit as well so that a scout can't sab a whole base in 30 seconds.

 

That's not fun for the engineer. Really, that's completely horrible for the engineer.

How about this instead? Make it so sabotage's health drain will not kill any building but turrets. (I do think scouts should be able to kill turrets.) Maybe armories, too. And, uh, engineer sensors, although I can't think why someone would sab one of those.

So you can bring a rax or a ref down to 1%, but you can't kill it.

A possible addition would be to allow concussion and scout stickies to do a tiny sliver of damage to structures -- not enough to matter under any other circumstance, but a scout could kill a building if it drops to 1%. That way, scouts can kill buildings if they're totally undefended (an engineer could do the same thing), but you avoid the scout driving around rapidly sabbing all your refs without pausing and winning the game with no help from anyone else. This part might not be necessary, though.

Of course, if the rest of their team is following them, you're screwed, but that's how it should be.

Another alternative (or in addition to the above): The health drain could stop as soon as an engineer repairs any health to the structure. The building's other sabotage effects would remain until they'd healed half its health, like usual, but this would at least let engineers prevent their base from self-destructing.

 

@ Original Poster: I hate sabotage, I didn't care when it was weak as it was in the beginning but since it was needlessly buffed to justify the scout I loath it.

@ ResT: Yea, the team already discussed how sabotage could be made less suck but that discussion was 1 day before 2.24 release, go figure. I had to whine a lot to CB to get the sabotage damage reduced in the last seconds.( a lot more was set as a first try)

*shakesfist at sabotage*

 

Remove sabotage its a cheap and not polished copy of the engineer abilitys to destroy buildings.
Or with other words, stop giving the scout toned down abilitys of other classes because theirs no role for the class.

 

That's a neat idea.
Scout would need a way to tell a building's health, if he's going to finish off those buildings with sticky stuns. Sticky stuns already do a little damage to buildings, or used to.

 

Good idea, demented. This way, the team losing the building also gets a, "Under attack," message.

 

We have to implement so way of capturing enemy scouts alive, so that they can be tortured to death like the dirty scumbags they are. Enemy engineers will be sent to POW camps where they will be fed, clothed and given daily massages.