Anyone else dislike the new sabotage?

Aye, that's quite a good one actually. best solution I've seen yet methinks.

 

That isn't the problem for the most part, a scout sabbing your base is just annoying and is usually dealt with pretty quickly
A scout in a vehicles driving around the map all game sabbing your entire res flow/stray structures is however


And to drag - good to know something you guis b brain stormin

 

Didn't sab use to only bring buildings down to 1 hp instead of kill them? I think I remember that either in an RC or suggested. That would be nice now instead of it killing the buildings.

I know how powerful it is to drive around with an engineer/scout combo sabbing shit. But I've also killed and been killed while doing that. It's not impossible to stop.. Just really hard haha

Scouts should also be able to un sab stuff. Maybe make it sab a skill so they need 3 skill slots to have vehicle speed and radar stealth. I dunno, I'm just thinking of work around's even though I would be happy to see the whole class gone.

 

Right now I would rather see fixes and changes rather then full removal.

Anyway... This was my fix for sabo. Probably would still need to be tweaked.

I said that one time... Never got around to suggesting it.

Good to know. Should your "Senior Member" be changed to something at this point? Like "In your devs, talkins to your communitys", "shakesfist at sabotage" or "Scripter"?

 

We have a winner, folks!

 

Could be worse, could be an engineer driving around in a vehicle destroying all your refineries.

 

Ummm what
I would rather an engineer destroy my shit than a scout, since they can't do it as fast and you get a warning

 

Main problem now is that the distinction is about a 35 seconds.

And for those 35 seconds you receive 50% less res and it took him about 7 seconds to stop, sab, then go.

It takes 4 seconds to sab and 1 min to have a ref die. It takes about 15-30 seconds to kill a ref as an engi and he can't drop another ammo box for about 170 seconds.

In 3 mins an engi could have killed 4-5 refs and be on his way to another. In 3 mins a scout could have killed 5 refs and have 5 more going to die. (numbers based on 3phase jeep on duststorm, no vehicle speed). And theres no warning for the scout.

Thats why people have a problem.

 

I feel that a Scout sabbing a barracks in support of an attack is extremely unbalanced.

With Hide, in the middle of action, the Scout is nearly impossible to find and kill. Scout can sabotage the barracks with near impunity, forcing the enemy to constantly spawn at half-health, and forcing a far greater number of Engineers into repair duty. Scout can easily out-sabotage the Engineers' repair efforts, and so under any sort of dedicated attack, the opposing team will find it extremely difficult to defend.

 

remove the damage over time, make buildings sappable over and over again halving the hp each time they do it with a limit of 1 or 5 hp or something

then make the actual sabotage done with trowing sabotage grenades

 

In the other direction, sabotage should maybe not halve a building's health. Unless they spawn at a barracks or build a vehicle, they aren't going to notice the building is sabotaged until it starts smoking anyway.

 

Scouts are a big enough of a threat for me as com to check all my bases periodically. I stopped caring if they sap a ref unless there is an engineer nearby that I've noticed and so happens to be near a smoking ref. There is little that I or anyone can do about a scout in a jeep sapping all the refs.

I've faced a problem where a scout would sap a base that isn't readily populated (comprised of a Rax, VF, a few turrets, and maybe a ref and radar) and then hide somewhere in that base. This takes people that can be used from the frontlines to go all the way back to a base, repair, find said scout (if the scout is still there), and then travel back (or die and spawn at another Rax and thus wasting tickets) from just one individual. Typically the Rax is saved, but everything else goes down. So now either I spend resources to place the buildings there again and take up more time for the several people that now has spawned there due to me alerting everyone (time that can be spent for the spawning people from doing other things like advancing on the enemy or stopping an enemy advance), or I don't build anything else and everyone there has to run back to the action. This all happens because of the rapid building health decline from one scout.

This kind of element with scout sabotage goes a lot with the RTS aspect of the game, and to me it is a great part of the game too, It shouldn't be removed. For the com, it is all about balancing what to do like that is also fun like: giving players targets, listening to what's going on with the troops, dropping refs, researching tech, telling people on possible or immediate threats, informing when a particular research is done, coordinating attacks, giving more people targets, dropping base defense turrets, getting out of the com vehicle to build said turrets, making absolute sure the com vehicle isn't in any hidden danger, monitoring friendly and enemy movements, cheering if we're winning, and whining if we're losing.

With the addition of watching in agony as an entire base dies from a scout, cursing for not being vigilant enough to see it coming, coordinating with people to saved said base, wondering where all the resources are because that scout had sabotaged majority of the refs we had, and then having Mashav... er a scout melee the com who was building a turret; it all adds up nicely.

 

That would be silly. A scout could take 12 seconds and bring a structure down to 12.5%. Then an engi could kill that structure in 2-4 seconds. Hell... He could spend 20 seconds and bring it to 3%. Then anyone could kill that structure with anything. Or on an undefended rax, with an engi, they could kill it in about 8 seconds because the scout could keep doing something after it got halved once.

I find thats actually a good thing. Besides the fact that a scout with enhanced senses could go out and kill him, It means that the attacking team has an advantage and the game won't stall forever. It also gives the scout something useful to do during an assault. Grens can shell the building and mortar the people coming out. Rifles can throw grenades at the entrances and kill anyone who trys to come out. Engis can heal and rearm everyone while throwing sisemics. Scouts cant really do much besides sab(and before you say "then give him something else" I think that this is an acceptable thing, and should encourage scouts using sabo to not just crawl around and sab).

If an assault has gotten to the point where you can't even step outside to kill people that are touching the building, you have lost.

Also, this has been around since the start of sabo, it hasn't really been much of an issue. Hell, sabo wasn't an issue till it started dealing a lot of damage over time.

Then how would it be repaired? Besides the fact that I think its fine, useful and what sabo should be used for in combat, there's only a few other alternatives

I suppose it could add an artificial amount of health(so that the building is still at 100% but requires 50% to heal it) but that would still drain engi juice.

It could require a "counter sab" by a friendly scout, but that would be near useless in combat, and would make outlying sabbed buildings require a scout.

It could just be a set amount of time, but that would just be annoying. For the scout it could mean that the turret he sabbed on the way in is still functional on his way out. Sabbing refs would almost useless because that amount of time would be negligible to the amount of time an unwatched ref could lose. And this would make sieges easy because a sabbed rax/vf couldn't be repaired, and killing the scout would do nothing.

It could be that the scout has to constantly hold e on the building for the sabo effect to work, but that would mean sabbing anything outside of a base under attack would be useless.

There could be the device sabbing where you put some form of device that sabbs till it dies, but that seems like it would be even harder to find.

I suppose it could just be 75% that it brings it to, but that seems lackluster.

There's probably a bunch more that I can't think of, but it seems to me that what we have now is good and better then its alternatives.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, a certain amount of repairs (tool energy) are all that's needed to remove sabotage, and the damage it does over time would be enough for an engineer to repair it.

 

Its actually once it goes over 50% (or 51-53%... not sure) that the sab effects stop.

I apologize if I mistook you for responding to these quotes

If you were only responding to the latter then my response was out of place.

 

So what you really don't want is an engineer and a scout holding hands, driving around the map together on a ref-annihilating road trip.

 

meh, the scout doesnt need a engy with him, like I said in my earlier post it takes less than a minute for a sab to kill a ref, and takes him like 5 sec to sab. Engy would only speed the process for the first build or 2 then be useless almost. Way more effective in terms of manpower for the enemy team to just use 1 scout.

 

This is a cool idea
When you sab a building they don't take damage but as soon as someone spawns/uses them, they drop down to 1/2 hp and give the effects to whoever just used it and all the rest afterwards
Maybe have a sabbed radar cost 1.5x times more for research without the commander knowing it?

 

This seems very odd to me, and more annoying then what it is now. I definitely need more explanation.

 

You sab a building and it shows no signs of symptoms until someone someone uses it, I had mainly the vehicle factory in mind but I don't see why the barracks couldn't be the same.
For example...im in your base sneakings arounds and I sab the vehicle factory, it acts as normal with full health then when somebody buys a tank the buildings gets knocked down to half health and the tank that was just made comes out with half its armor and half its hull. Any tanks after that without the building being repaired would come out with 1/2 hp also

Would be fucking great to sab a VF and then the entire enemy team plans on a rush and you see 10 vehicles all being repaired while the other team screams wtf