How did you get the idea that a pilot class would be implemented for ground vehicles too? It would be only for aircraft to prevent base rushers with aircrafts after the game has been going on for a 2 minutes. I didn't say anything about ground vehicles at all. Edit: Ok I got it now. You mean when a pilot survives an aircraft crash and then gets a tank and after that survives from the tank's death. But think of the AA and comet thing a little bit. Does the current lvl 1 ML turrets make your tank expload right away when they have locked on to you? No, why? Because the lvl 1 turrets aren't powerful enough to destroy tanks enough fast before the driver of the tank is inside your base. Now you say: "OMG like fucking God lvl 3 turrets are there to prevent this!!" Well... To be honest I haven't seen so much lvl 3 turrets in the last games which I have played and I have played a lot. So the same thing would happen with the aircraft too. The player who would control the aircraft would be able to get inside enemy's base even there would be lvl 1 AA turrets around the base. They don't do enough much damage enough fast to shoot down the plane and they aren't meant to be as powerful as lvl 3 turrets. So pilot class would prevent the aircraft ninjaing because up there is a lot more space to dodge enemy aircrafts and missiles and all kinds of things than on the ground and that makes it easier to get in the enemy's base via aircrafts than ground vehicles. And that's the reason why I like the pilot class idea because then the player who controlled the aircraft couldn't do much damage in the enemy's base because this would start to remind the APC rushing. Pilot class would save aircrafts' hulls from making them have 10 hps or something like that to prevent aircraft rushing after you may get them. And you can always ask your commander to place a forward rax to the front line to change your class. I have seen these and they have lasted very well at front line. This would allow you to change your class a lot faster than spawning in your base again. Also if you don't want to get your class changed get in a dropship and stay in the cargo area which would be the slots 2-8. If you have to pilot the plane then your class will change to pilot class when you enter the first slot and when you change to slot 2-8 again you will have the same class as you chose and before you got in a plane.
I didn't bother reading that Weedy I just want to say that if a pilot class proves necessary through testing, it should be added then. adding it now only prolongs an already long project
Weedy, you're not getting something. Specific anti-aircraft turrets, the last time I checked, ARE PLANNED! Second... If you can AFFORD AN AIRCRAFT IN THE FIRST TWO MINUTES, you're playing money and the map needs changed anyway. And if you're NOT playing money, a single L1 AA turret can take you out. Then again, so could hitting a freaking bird along the way.
because damage to your flight systems will cause you to crash? really i don't think any non-dev knows how AAA will work
Afaik, aircraft will be map-specific anyway. Most current maps are too small and at the moment we have only one/two x16 maps. Battles will need a lot more planning and vehicles/transportation are going to be more important on those maps.
wtf? there's no such thing as a fucking aircraft rush. OBVIOUSLY aircraft are going to cost too much, if not research, to afford in the begining of the game. so you want to mess up the flow of the game, give people no purpose to survive any crash, introduce a superflous class that can do nothing other than queue up for the vehicle factory and then fly his aircraft until it dies, to stop an tactic that you have entirely assumed might appear? no. let me explain as I would to a five year old: currently- (no pilot) your vehicle/aircraft dies. on the ground you meet other members of your team. you continue working with them, helping your team. it is fun your pilot idea- your aircraft dies. but you're a pilot. you're not going to be able to play. as you are in the field, your only choice it to suicide. your entire bullshit idea is based upon a WHOLE LOT of assumptions. like "lev 1 AA turret". why do you assume they're going to be the same as the current turrets? I've got more than a good few reasons why they won't be. you entirely assume that turrets won't be able to protect people from using aircraft to get into a base. as if being in the air in a vehicle that cannot use cover (which even a vehicle can use), that cannot accellerate instantly in another direction, and cannot turn around, stop and avoid turrets quickly like a vehicle can. you assume that krenzo is just going to include AA turrets that even a NEW player is with ease going to be able to fly over and avoid. like why do you assume that players will use VERY expensive aircraft as a suicide taxi? don't assume for one fucking little second that i require level three turrets to justify not having a pilot class. now instead of looking narrowmindedly at the smallest smallest possible tactic that MIGHT come about because aircraft are used, let's look at the big picture. hey, you know those damn APC rushes that you don't like? let's introduce a "driver" class, so that they can't happen any more. won't that be FUN! THAT'S how we ballance things- just add more classes so that you have less and less to do, more and more situations where you're against enemies that you can't even damage and less and less choices of what to do after you spawn. that's how we roll, right? I am sorry for being a moody crackhead today. I know I should let this drop. but when I see this i get so angry that a suggention like this could get through to the dev team- make them wreck what just happens to be my favorite mod.
An engineer, rifleman, and grenadier are just as useless when they get stranded in the middle of nowhere. Sure, it's not helping teamwork should a pilot class crash, so because he got shot down after making his 15th delivery of friendly forces at the border of enemy territory, now he's suddenly a useless piece of shit and should be what... banned? You're kinda' going extremist on this right now.
engineer, rifleman or grenadier are not useless at all. i mean seriously: rifleman kills things, grenadier can kill vehicles and buildings, engineers can kill anything and build. if they meet their squad, they can still function. which is more that what i can say for a pilot. a pilot behind enemy lines isn't "metaphorically useless". he is "literally useless". there is no task at which he can do. how is just stating the obvious: that gameplay in empires isn't limited to what a badly coded bot can do. gameplay in empires is fluid: sometimes you're in a vehicle, perhaps that vehicle will get destroyed and you'll proceed on foot. perhaps as an engineer you'll be needed to build. and then they might need to repair. and then shoot someone. people have options, don't fulfil a single roll. ask yourself why we don't have a medic. you're telling me that I'M exteremist, while there are people trying to turn this mod into a limited and dull game based on a speculation on a possible tactic. I guess that's why i feel so mad. which in a way, kinda is extremist. balls I just think this mod is better than this pilot suggestion.
You can always not be a pilot if they ever come into the game? This isn't Sandbag's Empires you know. Pilots are a decent addition to keep noobs from spamming. Now I'm sure you'd like some frustratofest à la Battlefield 2, but some of us come here for fun. Pilots may be useless in the battlefield, but on large maps, if they are ever implemented, they will be a nescessity, not completely useless.
1: why do you assume that I'm doing this for myself? i NEVER make such suggestions, often nerfing things because I'm overly good with them, that they're unbalanced. I don't think even you know what you mean: "pilots are to keep noobs from spamming" ? from spamming what? spamming planes? because if there's a pilot class then they're LESS likely to pick it and then have no option but to get a plane? 2: fuck BF2. I've played it. I don't like it. I want a fun game too. 3: why will they be a necessity on large maps? because on large maps it doesn't matter if one of your team can't actually do stuff once his vehicle has been destroyed? there is ONE, entirely speculative reason so far as to why to include the pilot class. that they might be able to get around the (assumadely absolutely shit because even an aircraft that the turret is specifically designed to kill can get past them) turrets, in order that said player can then ninja the base. this is why you want to add a class that is no fun to play? (remember kids that without said class you can also be having fun in aircraft without the waste of time you become once you're on foot)
You can always change your class in a forward armory. I'm didn't suggest driver class for vehicle drivers because that wouldn't resolve the APC rushing. The issue was at APC rushing that APC had good armoring AND a bunch of troops on them which took down the enemy base, not the APC's driver. That wouldn't have fixed anything. And I was thinking of smaller maps with this pilot class because on those the aircraft would have been a bad issue because the distances are so small that it is easy to do a few fast strikes directly inside the enemy's base. Also I think aircraft won't cost as much as 1000 MU (Money Units) or something like that because then there would be a chance to use them too rarely. But now I realized that air factories could be disabled on these small maps so I think as Buttery Lobster stated a few posts ago that we'll see how it turns out when 16x maps get released with aircrafts. We'll see does there happen ultra fast rushes with aircraft when the other team just gets all the possible refinery spots as soon as possible and save the money just for the aircrafts and then fly in the enemy's base. So... As Butterly Lobster stated let's see how it turns out and let's drop this arguing here. Let's continue this thread when aircrafts get impelemted.
sure sure i hate arguing. can't we all just get along? :p btw that paragraph with "hey, you know" was sarcasm
Pilot class is superfluous IMO. I mean, from what I gather aircraft are going to be the equivalent of heavy/med tanks in terms of researching and money, making the pilot class entirely pointless for a portion of the map. The best way I can think of resolving this "OMG N00BS STEALING ALL OUR AIRCRAFTS! HALP!" problem would be to implement the crash landing idea and putting in some kind of commander ability to only allow certain people in a vehicle he's built when the factories are restricted, which kills two birds with one stone (jeep spam and noob pilots), without the need for another unnecessary class. This would stop people making paper planes, because they're going to be stuck with it unless they can find a safe landing place, and it would completely stop noobs turning vehicles into heavily armored short buses. Only problem I can see is commanders being dicks about letting people have vehicles but then that's what the 'votekick commander' button is for. Wether or not Krenzo thinks this would be worth the work involved is another matter entirely though. Also bearing in mind that we haven't even played with the aircraft yet, so we're just going on assumptions. :p
Because if you managed to buy an airplane in the first couple minutes of the game, it's going to be a paper airplane. And damn thin paper at that. Thus, as you fly over said lvl 1 AA turret, KABOOM! ZOMG DED! Yes, because you got shot down in FRIENDLY territory by an ENEMY AA turret, which was probably part of a LARGER turret farm, and SOMEHOW managed to reach a FORWARD ARMORY, BEHIND ENEMY TURRET FARMS. By the way, I'd like to apologize for writing this before Weedy called for us to just wait and see how aircraft turned out.
I thought aircraft factory would have two basic airplanes in its build menu as vehicle factory does now so that's why aircraft rushing could be a threat but as Private Sandbag stated... I personally hate long arguments too. Small arguing isn't bad if you are really trying to understand what other people is after at his ideas or comments and try to understand his way of thinking and why something would be good in his opinion. But this arguing was quite frustrating and I have to admit that I didn't see the point in others' ideas until after a while so maybe we don't need Pilot class after all. Let's get along, be friends and let's start arguing again when aircrafts get in even in this thread are good ideas for upcoming aircrafts.
ok children, I actually met Krenzo on his way to TN and we discussed a number of Empires issues, including this one. Right now there will NOT be a pilot class. If we do end up having trouble with wasted paper airplanes then we will find a solution then but right now we dont think it will be a problem. What do you think of a radar jamming aircraft or vehical that would have a red circle on the mini map for all to see and stay inside of? Would allow for sneak attacks but you have to be carful because the enemy would see a big circle of missing radar contacts sneaking up on the base.
