I always have to repeat myself on these forums for some odd reason ok, let's say 9 mines themselves are overpowered. My point is they aren't overpowered in terms attacking a CV ninja style. It could be 1 large mine for all I care. My point is defense against the commander is crucial and if you lose a game cause you didn't protect your most valuable piece of equipment then you're not even fit to drive in one. Maybe you're right, maybe they do lots of damage. I wasn't looking at it from that perspective. I was looking at it from the POV of "here's this incredible attack that can incapacitate my comm vehicle but it's somewhat slow and easily defendable" Some of us have been wanting remote explosives but we never hear anything about them
that was a great game.. 1 guy on our team tried to ninja over and over agian and could never do it.. as for the 9 mines.. i think it helps ad more depth to the game then just shooting guns.. infact its one of the reasons i really got into this game
ok, I hadnt quite read your reply fully sorry - it was at least halfly aimed at everyone anyway and just happened to be following your post. Making it so that a fully healthy comm chair wasnt killed straight away by mines would be good - but 8-9 mines should (imo) at least do huge damage to it still, taking off all/most of armour and maybe some hull (otherwise its really quite a strong chair). It'd be nice to see it balanced so that the comm can be flipped but a flipped comm will live for slightly longer than it would take a friendly grenadier to flip it back (assuming spawn shortly after the first flip and decent ammo supply). If people want the 9th mine explosion out then there needs to either be a change to the defusal skill or the addition of satchel type charges as mentioned a few dozen posts ago. Personally, I'd prefer the first anyway but would be quite happy with some sort of c4 (happy ish, unless you only got one charge or 2 or something at tops it'd be ott probably). There are two totally seperate 'discussions' going on here about 9th mines and about ninjaring - they arent all totally related are they? heck 9th mining can be one of the most effective ways to stop ninjas since they will very likely have defuse so can drive over mines and also at times drive fast enough to pass turrents. Is there any sense in putting up some sort of poll for the 2 issues? here it seems to be a few people getting quite fraught. I'd vote for either no change or a beefing of the CCs like mootant suggested - or the game continuing after comm dies like I suggested :0). 9th mining is weird but is no odder than the defusal skill negating your other 8 mines against a tank, nuke tanks in general or most of the rest of empires.
I finally understand what you've been trying to tell us. I think i now agree with you, when you say that the 9th mine trick should be removed. The problem is that it's not that easy. Like many have said, if you place 8 mines and hit the cv with a mortar it still blows up.
Who are these people ? Sounds like a bunch of lazy coms who have never heard of defense and only strategy is turning out tanks If the ninja tactic is removed I personally feel it will be a disaster for gameplay Every strategy game out there usually has ninjas... - If some guy runs into your base in cnc and lays c4 on the construction yard then the game is over - If you let a libiyan suicide vehicle hit your construction vehicle in red alert 2 your screwed The list goes on...
what about a rpg trooper? or a single rocket buggy? what happens in cnc if you get an engineer to face a marine? How many nukes in generals does it take to kill your command center? You are mentioning special units in cnc, units that require good micromanaging to get into those positions. They also cost resources to build, here we have real players being able to do their own thing while the rest of the team + commander does theirs. Next to that you are talking about a game that has masses of mindless units under the control of one person. Above all of that, in empires every unit that can kill structures can become such a 'special unit' from the first second in the game. If i recall correctly in every cnc game to be able to train these units you need to be in the end tech of the game ( so maybe not the libyan suicide tank or whatever, but if we look at cnc gold where there arent as many units as generals, or ra, these units would be end tech). Not only that some of these units like a commando or tanya (depending which cnc) you have a limit of 1. So in this case your example only enforces my point. I don't know which command and conquer you mentioned, but I could happily give a more accurate example, besides generals isn't exactly (imho) the game you want to look up to, this is not in my defence as I am still able to give you any of these cross game examples, I just think generals is the worst cnc ever made, worse than RA1 and ra1 was mindless tank rushing. Also I'd like to note that even trying to make 1 on 1 comparisons like this is completely useless, lets take something more closer to empiresmod: Natural-selection. Not very close, but I wouldn't say cnc comes close to empiresmod gameplay either. To reply to what you said: Who said this? Can you be more specific on which post you are replying to? So because every game has "ninjas" means just by having them means its balanced? How many of these strategy games you're talking about are based on teamwork? Apart from that, nobody has said the opposite. What else can this unit you are speaking of do? Please compare this as well to the whatever ninja unit in empiresmod you are comparing it to. An exploding vehicle, nice comparison, how fast can the thing drive? Can it manage to dodge any hits from any enemy tanks on its way? Can this unit actually defend itself and kill turrets before it reaches you construction vehicle? Can it fulfill any other roles than blowing up? And how many units does this cnc with libyans exactly have? You only managed to list 2 things and call it quits, this list has to be huge.
The libiyan vehicle I listed were as an examples of a unit for the same tactic.... they may cost more but they are harder to stop As has already been mentioned many times in the past... a grenadier in empires is one of the esiest things to stop as long as the commander remembers to place defences The c4 unit from tiberian wars was a fanatic... and is comparable in that it is easy to stop by turrets and doesn't cost a huge amount Btw there is also commando units in cnc tiberium wars that have the best mg in the game and they could blow up a construction yard in one Also the part of my previous post about the negative effect on gameplay.....that was relating to every post in the thread that wants this removed. Removing the ability to ninja would mean that any team many tech levels down will not see any point in continuing as there would be no way of coming back and would reduce the number of strategys available for a commander to get his soldiers to win the game
If people are just pissed at the remote mines thing (as I am), then we can go to timed mines. (press E to activate timer) ---------------------- I really really agree though- tanks, especially light tanks, are TERRIBLE against turrets. i mean, you can get perhaps 6 or 7 shots in (which takes ages now), and given that you'll have missed 2 or 3, you've just killed your first turret. if you're clever like HSM, who places two ML's and an MG, that little fort takes AGES to get past. I think that the basically, small cannon, which at one point was balanced vs turrets, is now rubbish. It should do 1.5 x damage vs turrets.
Of course it will reduce ability to return to the game by 1 explosion. And that's good. When people start to lose you can always notice someone trying to ninja. Very rarely they start to play as a team to take refineries back.
Standard cannon does 10 less damage than it used to. It takes one more standard cannon shot than it used to to kill a turret. I like ninjas when you consider in Natural Selection, after the first five minutes, the game was decided, and 90% of the time you couldn't do anything to change that. Everyone on the losing team would quit eventually. The only way to set off mines by explosion is by having another mine go off nearby. Those of you who think mortar or rpg explosions blow up mines are wrong. If a comm has defusal, the only way for a ninja to set off the mines is with the 9th mine. Shooting a mortar at the comm might push the comm into the mines, but if he has defusal, it won't work. The only possible nerf I can think of is to make it so that with the max ammo upgrade, the grenadier can only pick up 8 mines. That would force him to be unable to use the 9th mine trick unless he has access to more ammo.
Few people used it but what about squad hide + grenadier? You don't need to be a retard to be ninjaed by grenadier working with scout. Side effect of you wanting to give losing team some chance to fight back is that half of the players at the start of the map just say "FUCK YOU" to commander and try to ninja. NS: you can skulk/onos/fade rush the AA. It helps a lot and works with stupid rines. But you can't use focus, get to rines base, and silently destroy CC. (you can build more than 1 CC and AA too)
yeah thats not to bad of an idea.. but im sure dizzy will still find a reason to say its overpowerd.. but atleast with this a commander with diffuse will be able to not pay attention to his base and mootant.. if you drop a mine the hide goes away.. so if they have turrets setup you wont be able lay mines untill those get killed
Yeah, that makes it hard to ninja, but still makes it a valid technique in escort and other places where you have an ammo box.
place 5 mines. shoot the CV. the CV moves. the mines detect this and detonate. the CV dies. we can do better changes than just nerfing the ammo uprade.
yeh but apparently some people don't like taking precautions to stop the com blowing up (such as turrets) So why would these people suddenly take up the precaution of defusal skill... They will start complaining again :D
True, I wasn't trying to compare it with NS. But with 2.0 and 3.0 games took a lot longer, where there would definitly be games where the tide was turned. But yeh most of the games I have played were indeed slowly dying. But in NS its all about teamwork and thats not a bad thing. A shotty rush is devastating, lerks, oni, fades and skulks completely raping your base etc. Compared to where you unload a group of grenadiers in your apc, half of their firepower wouldve been enough and the rest won't know what to hit at as everything is going down in mere seconds.
if the commander is commanding, his tank looks empty on the minimap. does his skill set still affect the CC? fpr that matter, do empty tanks set off mines at all? On other matters, can the comm's armour be upgraded in the repair yard? I was going to repeat someone else's comment on the possibility of buying a new comm chair (and having the option of going comm removed if someone else is already the comm) but cant remember who said it or what they said There should be a tank that hovars too, a scorpian or somesuch
