[Considering] Allow Destructable Ammo Boxes With Melee

If this does become implemented, make it so scout sabotage makes the ammo boxes disappear or turn into that ghost thing.

 

Your original post is fine, exploding ammo boxes is just retarded.

 

Make your point. Peacock terms won't work.

 

Why would anyone drop a crate to get ammo if it's going to be an exploding death trap? It discourages engies from helping their team and players from rearming themselves without having to run back and find an armory. The only positive effect I can see this having is people using armories more often because they don't want to die just because they're out of bullets.

And since you weren't around last time we had this discussion: http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=10164

 

Thanks for explaining, I previously read through the bulk of that thread. I want to elaborate on the idea because it seems you have a preconceived notion. It won't be an exploding death trap unless it's exposed... so engi throws wall down then ammo behind... That's good practice anyway. I mean, the engi did just put a huge box of hand grenades, RPGs, mortar shells, nukes, HEMG ammo, landmines, etc down and everyone huddled around it during a gunfight... I think this adds the burden of protecting your ammo not just dropping it, and that could be a very fun dynamic.

It will also make armories slightly more useful, but as a strategy or a resort.

Imagine running around a wall and seeing a squad of enemies, but lobbing a mortar shell as you die which slams into their box and cleans them out. That's fun, and a great punishment for snuggling up with your ammoz.

 

No, the OP's suggestion adds the burden of protecting your ammo, exploding crates makes it a hassle to even attempt to get ammo anywhere near the enemy. Dropping a wall is just going to encourage the enemy to toss a grenade or mortar shell into your box, basically giving those weapons an indirect buff. There are simpler ways to discourage ammo box humping, like limiting ammo per player/box, or making them non-solid so they can't be used as mini-walls.

 

Ok soundspawn...er firstly, that's just the cap on the nades given by boxes, right?

Anyway, the reason it's bad is because Empires' teamwork is mostly based around ammunition. That's arguable, but I mean for the vast majority of noobs and newbies and trolloids, griefers etc that populate Empires (vets make up the trolloid faction), what they care about is being able to shoot people, not build or saboutage or revive or heal or even tank sometimes, first and foremost teamwork is bound by Ammo. This is demonstrated by the amount of times a team fails because they fail to work together - people don't care how the team is doing per se, until they realise they have lost...until then it's all about the ammoz and shooting.

The ammo box is a great way to make pseudo-teamwork as riflemen, grenadiers and scouts need to check in with an engy from time to time for ammunition and healing. Engies are like mobile armouries to be honest, and their main gameplay is base defense and construction/destruction (and their weapons allow them to be decent soldiers, or did). But Ammoz is what binds them to the team initially, and this hopefully flourishes into real teamwork, like squad play, tactics, objectives etc...and listening to the commander (lol, usually last on the list).

Anyway, tampering with that, opens a whole can of worms (like your other thread). If you make ammo boxes explosive, people will use them less as they will be seen as a hazard. 90% of the time an ammo box is either deployed in a combat situation or at a site that will become a combat zone, which will probably lead to them being destroyed about 40% of the time. Most engies do not deploy an ammo box under cover, that's a fact, and considering how slowly people learn any kind of tactical play, you can assume that that's not going to change any time soon.

I just don't think that making something so vital to teamwork and the game itself into a hazard is something that will work out unless it's done incredibly well.

I've learnt from 1.08 testing to the 2.0 release, that what works in theory in a controlled environment really fooks you up when released to the community.

 

I'm not sure we're reading the same thread... the OPs suggestion didn't include explosions at all... and the only burden to protect would be that it could be melee'd... Are you thinking about the old thread?

Did you read where the ammo box would have 100 health? That means that indirect fire such as a not-so-near grenade wouldn't be enough to kill the box, and if it was, that same grenade just killed you so the explosion from the box is moot (sorry health upgraders). If a gren hits the box over a wall close enough to do 100 damage then power to him I'd say. Is there something wrong with said indirect buff that couldn't be balanced out? Is there something about a box full of explosives that makes you think it should be immune to explosions?

There may be simpler ways, but this sounds to add something interesting to the game at the same time.

 

I neglected the melee part of the OP's suggestion, but boxes acting the same way as cameras/radars, being destroyed by any enemy fire without exploding might add an interesting element to the game, without the annoyance.

The mortar is (or was) meant to only kill on direct hits to players, this would basically give the gren an easy splash damage kill.

By this logic, every building in the game should damage nearby players when destroyed. This is a game, every object in the game should have it's place. A new player is going to see a box with a bullet symbol and think, "oh, I can get ammo from here," not "Oh, I should get away from this thing." Players shouldn't have to worry about their own team's buildings/players/tanks/placeable objects killing them.

 

Again I would say if a gren can land a direct hit while firing indirectly (over a wall) then power to him... he'd have to nail the small box he can't even see...

Interesting counter-point. Now what if the skin has a "danger: explosive" sticker on it? Half kidding. I agree with the second sentence regardless, Empires is a game of absolutely zero friendly fire... Maybe if the box did structure damage only (including any nearby walls)... Or only hurt the placing engi and enemies ala mines?

 

Having it explode is stupid. This game isn't about realism with ammo exploding. They need to be treated like cameras and mini radars with more health.

 

Honestly, as I said in the other thread:

Just make it so ammo boxes don't block construction. Have the construction remove them, or even just have it clip through them.

Not a big deal. I don't like making them destructible -- it just feels like a bad idea, and you still have to search for the ammo box blocking your construction, which would be annoying sometimes. Just making it so they don't block construction ever would be a much cleaner solution.

My problem with ammo boxes being destructible with weapons is that I can envision something like this: I drop an ammo box for my team near the frontline, one lucky hit takes out, we're screwed.

And while it sounds good to say I should put the box in a safe place, here's the problem: I have to put the box someplace where my team will see it, or it's useless. It's not like a sensor; putting it hidden in the corner somewhere is no good. If I put a box in the corner, nobody will see it, they'll still demand ammo, and I won't be able to drop a box where they can see it because of the timer.

I also really, really don't like anything that makes it easy for one person to screw over their entire team with one mistake. Exploding ammo boxes would do this -- one person placing an ammo box at the wrong time could screw their whole squad. That is, IMHO, bad design. It leads to bad feelings in the team -- it's no fun to be that one person; it's irritating for everyone else to lose because one person made a newbie mistake.

This would be less of a problem if it were only melee. But I still think the cleanest solution is to simply have boxes not block construction.

 

HOLY CRAP.

PEOPLEZ.


PLZZZZZZZZZZ.

FOCUS ON MY SUGGESTION ONLY INSTEAD OF DERAILING MY THREAD.

PLZZZZZZZZZ.

<caps>

 

Part of your suggestion is discussing it's alternatives. I think my curiosity is satisfied, exploding boxes would be fun when you're the shooter and frustrating as hell when you are the victim.

Damaging boxes (with just a poof upon destruction) makes the most sense to me, why limit to melee? Let people shoot the boxes, and let the engi replace them (small cooldown timer if your box is destroyed).

 

The alteration provides another aspect of my suggestion. This aspect affects game play to a bigger degree than my suggestion, which, in turn, needs bigger discussion and just more confusion and needless complication.

My idea alters Empires ONLY for the positive right now, and is something that has no cons. Any alteration to my suggestion has cons, and therefore has discussion. I'd just like the implementation of the base, THEN make alterations to said base, instead of focusing on the, "What if's."

 

Re-coding is a pain in the ass, as is relearning an aspect of a game (and having to re-assess any balance issues that could arise). If we're going to change something we should aim to change it once to minimize the shock on both the devs and the players. Besides, I'm just talking about shooting it/blowing it up instead of forced melee. Cons seem negligable.

 

No.
His idea doesn't change gameplay it all, it fixes a massive issue with refinery blockage which is pointless and unhelpful for both teams.

It's not supposed to be something you do as a tactic to win teh game, it's to fix a problem with the game.

ARE YOU ALL SO BLIND?

 

*claps*

 

1) It's not going in 2.25, too late for that
2) It will be in the version after provided we figure out exactly what is wanted.
3) This means we have time to figure out more than just "fix problem", so the question is, do we want ammo boxes to take damage from more than just melee attacks?

 

Can you at least make building placement ignore ammoboxes?