The Grenadier shouldn't have an RPG AND a Mortar

Sirex · Jan 18, 2009

Skyrage said: ↑

Sigh, I've said it before - the only fix that a grenadier needs is a deployment/undeployment time for the mortar. Throw in a minimum range as well - I cannot see how the hell any mortar can be fired at a target 5 meters from it.

In return, increase splash damage radius a bit. Keep damage as is. Direct hit kills an infantry as usual and all that.

BAM - you have a weapon that works as intended but isn't too weak. Grenadiers will now keep their distance, raining mortar-fire at enemy frontlines and softening them up.

Such a simple fix really.
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Aquillion said: ↑

That wouldn't be so bad. It would help open up 'close-range anti-infantry fighting' for scouts. It would also give scouts a role as grenadier-fighters... use a buffed hide skill to approach them while they're shelling your base and kill them before they can undeploy. (Them? They should have had their team covering them.)

I think it needs to be something along those lines, though... at a bare minimum, we need to change the mortar to open up a window either in terms of range (making it useless at anything too nearby, or in close combat / when ambushed) or in terms of the targets it's effective on.

Because otherwise, if we really want to buff every class up to the current mortar, we'd either end up with everyone able to kill everything, or scouts / riflemen so stupidly powerful at killing structures / infantry that it wouldn't even be funny.

But seriously. To all the people who want to keep the mortar as it is: I wanna hear what your vision of each of the classes' roles are. I want to hear what you think the grenadier's role in the game is, in particular, but I'd like to hear what you think everyone else's roles are as well.
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Yeah and that is what i wrote in the suggestion sticy. I will add this thread to that post also.

Kai · Apr 12, 2009

Private Sandbag said: ↑

you guys are coming to the conclusions i have also come to about the mortar.

here's my view; (a repost from an internal forum)

I want to start by justifying putting it in here. the rest of the forum is, to put it lightly, filled with inexperienced players with no idea of how the gameplay works. Frankly i don't think we need them either to discuss this. That said, i'm sure the veterans here are some of the most closed minded and "fixed" on what empires gameplay should be like. I too am guilty of that from time to time. anyway
WARNING WALL OF TEXT (sorry)

currently as i look at the grenadier, i see a class which is quite average at killing tanks. if you're with a squad and a light tank comes your way, it's less than likely that you'll fight it off even if you do have a grenadier.

BUT the grenadier class is balanced, and that's because he's actually pretty damn good at the moment at killing infantry. often the class is BETTER than a rifleman, in the right hands, at killing infantry.

let's be clear about one thing. the grenadier does not have a mortar. the grenadier has a grenade launcher. here's a pic of one:

anyone who knows or can hazard a guess as to how that works will know that it works exactly as the mortar in empires does. and what this grenade launcher does to the grenadier class is allow it to be a front line anti infantry unit.

so what do i propose is to change the mortar, from a grenade launcher, to a mortar. to do this;

-change the minimum pitch that it must be set at to fire to 45 degrees.
This means that when using the mortar, users will have to use it as a real mortar and use a high fire arc. from wikipedia: "mortars were praised because of the shell's high angle of flight; a mortar round could be aimed to fall directly into trenches where artillery shells, due to their low angle of flight, could not possibly go."
-incread pre-fire delay, so that when one fires it shows the player dropping the shell into the chamber and it imidiately firing, as a real mortar works. whats more, no extra animations would be needed because we can use the current reload animations. what this also does is remove the "snap shooting".
-increase damage and splash radius... to around the power of an HE shell. given the high flight time, players which look up will be able to see the mortars coming down and be able to avoid. this increase in power would be in line with the weapon becoming more of a support weapon.

with these changes, the mortar would still certainly be very useful, especially in trench combat or against groups of infantry. instead of aiming to hit the enemies right on, a mortar user can do pleanty of damage with a high arc. when confronted by an enemy unit, instead of being able to use the grenade launcher to potentially kill him instantly, he'll have to rely on his pistol, which means that he will certainly not be so much an anti infantry unit.

but to counter the decrease in his infantry fighting, his mortar damage has increased so that vs structures he would now be about the same as grenade spam from an engineer. whats more, the rocket launcher's homing ability and damage could be improved, a problem which irritated many people and made fighting tanks all but impossible for any inexperienced players.

Overall
vs infantry: worse
vs tanks and buildings: improved

what this does is it moves the classes apart; now an effective squad does only need one grenadier to fight off tanks, but instead should take along a rifleman or other anti infantry to . instead of every class able to do everything in a medicor way, classes will be more effective BUT only if they support eachother. going off rambo will not be as effective because as soon as you encounter something you're not effective against you'll suffer, just as riflemen do now vs tanks, but this will encorage teamplay.

edit: this as an option or alternative to the current one could allow people to enjoy the current mortar too.
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I agree. Turn the mortar into a mortar, or name it a grenade launcher.

Dubee · Apr 12, 2009

If all you want is a name change to a weapon then I don't think its really a big deal. I've already pointed out why an actual mortar would be OP. This game has wierd names for things that just stick.(blimbs?)

Does it even say anywhere in game that its called a mortar? I don't think many people will trip over it. Change the artillary tank into a mortar tank! Names don't matter.. I would like to see one of the mowtars be named the DUB-33 though. :D the "direct useful boom" haha I dunno

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The Grenadier shouldn't have an RPG AND a Mortar

Sirex Member

Kai Member

Dubee Grapehead

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The Grenadier shouldn't have an RPG AND a Mortar

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Dubee Grapehead

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