The General League Discussion Thread (NO GURLZ!!!!!)

Jcw87 · Mar 14, 2008

I think Evan for the most part didn't think the league out 100% through, and several things that were not covered in the rules happened. I don't blame him for trying to fix a broken league, but maybe he should consult the referees more?

dizzyone · Mar 14, 2008

I believe it's called kitchen sink syndrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_sink_syndrome

Evan · Mar 14, 2008

i think we are all happy with the product now. so isnt this pointless?

Thor · Mar 14, 2008

Opie said: ↑

Since Evan did it.

Hmm, I guess I did word it wrong. Some people want a less complicated, that is not a "lets see who the best clan is format" (which I can see their point and waver on whether I prefer this or not). The current format, however, is what I want. I have two big objections to the current league.

1.) Dubee nailed it on the head, and I think it is the biggest objection. There is no one playing. This season was rushed AGAIN. Both dubee and I stressed after the end of last season that the PUG was probably the better thing to shoot for right now as other clans gain some power, and was shocked to find out 1 day before the season began that we were doing the clan thing again. Four clans are not enough. In about a month I think KEU could field a full team, z4g sometimes plays and GHOST could eventually get a team together. The league should have concentrated on these clans and help them finish recruiting for some rosters. So we could have had 7 full teams instead of 4 (this includes BSID, which may have participated if it weren't just 4 teams again). I had pointed this out BEFORE this season has started and nothing.

2.) This opinion may be lessed shared but I think is Valid. And it is Evan and the way things are handled. I personally want to see a MUCH more democratic league. In my ideal league, a meeting would be held before the start of the league to ask any questions and all clans participating in the league. All clans participating would then get 1 vote in issues concerning the current and future league queries. The "referees" would be given a total of 2 votes that are split according to what percentage of the referees voted one way or another. I do appreciate the fact that the referees have on the most part, changed the way the league has worked. But DAMN if it hasn't taken pulling of some teeth.
And, I know some of you will say, but Evan has changed the format to suit what the clans wanted but it has not been handled the neither correctly , fairly or unbiased. Going into season 1, I probably had one of the highest opinions of Evan (from what I hear from other people). There were decisions by Evan made last season that were absolutely ridiculous.

->1.)Started off the back, after the teams rolled to see who would go first, Evan tried to pull a fast one, those who were there paying attention will remember. I at the time thought well maybe he is joking, but later events have changed my mind.

->2.)We voted to change the rules somewhat, voting was pretty much unanimous, and then referees came back and said no. We presented our side and why the league would not work under the current system (and we were right)

->3.)Change the elimination rule hours before JPL could be eliminated. Now this rule change WAS necessary but was horribly handled. At the beginning of season 1 I argued against those maps that had not been finished and reason was found in my reasoning to eliminate these maps (an option still found today in the current rules which I like). I was then under the impression that all the maps in the league had been finished (I thought a "base map" was escort or district). But at the last possible moment, it was decided that this map was not going to be complete for the imminent clan match and the rules were changed on the forums. No one however informed JPL, the team that could be affected by this rule change, about the rule change. I posted here in these forums that someone should tell roor and after a couple of hours decided to track some JPL member down to tell them to tell Roor of the change. He was floored. He thought I was lying, surely Evan would have told him of a change.

->4.)SEEU vs. BSID conflict. Those who don't know SEEU scheduled a match (including date, time and match) against BSID that we had prepared for. When SEEU decided they would not have enough members they told us and we took it as a forfeit and told Evan. Though I can see Evans point of view on the issue, since they had not told what map on these forums, just to us, we may be lying (mind you they did post about challenging us, just not the map), no effort was made to contact SEEU about it. We were just blown off like we were making it all up. Luckily, to avoid an even bigger uproar, BSID was able to mobilize, find the leader of SEEU and tried to get a match going. Rules were changed (rightfully so)however so that all challenges required both the map clans were attacking and what map they were attacking from.

->5.) I asked multiple upon multiple times while waiting for SEEU to find enough members what the rules for if an attacking clan couldn't get enough and had to forfeit. But NEVER got any clarification. Evan was there and my questions were ignored. In observing the demo, Evan said (paraphrase) "If BSID would have accepted the forfeit there would be no counterattack". Now, this gives me the impression that BSID would not have been awarded the piece of land that SEEU was attacking from if they had forfeited. Which was exactly what I was trying to ask Evan about.

->6.)The ninja edit of the above challenging rules (4). Like I said above, the rules were changed so that attacking clans had to tell what maps they were attacking and from where. Roor was unaware of this change when he challenged BSID in the final match, I however told him of this rule change (had been effect for about 3 weeks). Evan then took it upon himself to not only tell me I was wrong, but to change the rules accordingly. I called him out on it and his first post was denial. I was on BSID Vent, and told everyone what has just happened. And we reacted. He then changed everything back and deleted all the posts that had to deal with the situation to make it look like nothing had happened and told Roor the true story about how the rules were changed after the SEEU story. He then told everyone who tried to confront him about it that he was only joking with me, but we had no outside communication besides this forum. It was no joke, he was changing the rules right before our eyes.

Now I know dubee said something about a map change, but I have no idea what he is talking about, maybe he can post that here (if it is true).

The above feels like the indictment of the king in the declaration of independence.

Like I said, I had one of the highest opinions of any person of Evan (even though certain recruiting techniques I thought were unfair, he still had my respect) going into this thing, and am left shocked about what has transgressed. Now looking at all the conflicts with Evan from last season, a season that had only 5 matches and 6 named conflicts, I'm sure you can see why I wish there was less power in the hands of Evan. And I don't think BSID sitting out this season is unreasonable either because of what I have presented above. I still do not know why I can't get some concrete answers in my other thread of ending the league that need to be answered before that time comes and people have conflicts about that.

Having said all that, Evan thank you for listening to the people and considering this idea and coming up with a reasonable compromise on this idea. I don't think 1/3 points is a bad idea, I like 1/2 better, but 1/3 is good. This will satisfy I think dizzy, simon and bitchslap (the only people on that side to make any real opinions) on your side who all suggested something along those lines and is good with myself and KT. I do not know what others who voted and presented opinions on my side will think but this is reasonable. I think we can all agree on this solution.

This raises one more question, would these count as 1 of the 8 that a clan most play in order to win the league. I would vote no, but this may complicate things too much.

LOL that took so long to write that I signed out and two replies were made.
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/agree.

Evan · Mar 14, 2008

All of those numbered accusations you have made are misunderstandings. However, the forum is not a place for your seemingly personal vendetta and I won't reply here. So, if you want to continue, please PM me.

Thor · Mar 14, 2008

Evan said: ↑

All of those numbered accusations you have made are misunderstandings or never occured at all. However, the forum is not a place for your seemingly personal vendetta and I won't reply here. So, if you want to continue, please PM me.
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I wouldn't say it's personal. Just factual events that occured leading up to the failure of what was season 1, and other reasons as to why season 2 is doing so poorly.

Evan · Mar 14, 2008

Thor said: ↑

I wouldn't say it's personal. Just factual events that occured leading up to the failure of what was season 1, and other reasons as to why season 2 is doing so poorly.
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season 2 isn't doing poorly.

Thor · Mar 14, 2008

Evan said: ↑

season 2 isn't doing poorly.
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Almost everyone I've talked to IN the league says it's a joke/not in good shape.

Evan · Mar 14, 2008

Thor said: ↑

Almost everyone I've talked to IN the league says it's a joke/not in good shape.
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then you've just been talking to dubee. the season would go much more smoothly if you stopped dissing something you yourself are not participating in.

Thor · Mar 14, 2008

Evan said: ↑

then you've just been talking to dubee. the season would go much more smoothly if you stopped dissing something you yourself are not participating in.
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Actually I haven't spoken to him, but I guess you can add him to the list. Also, if the league is doing so well, my opinions shouldn't even matter, so stop making it so obvious that things are in distress. The league is piss-poor. I'm sorry to say it but I'm not going to beat around the bush, and I don't think anyone else should either.

Evan · Mar 14, 2008

Thor said: ↑

Actually I haven't spoken to him, but I guess you can add him to the list. Also, if the league is doing so well, my opinions shouldn't even matter, so stop making it so obvious that things are in distress.
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k the league will continue as normal.

dizzyone · Mar 14, 2008

Any clan that wants to try and win needs to have played atleast 8 matches, 8 matches in a timespan of 10 to 12 weeks, so I'd say there should be a quota. We'll see how it goes, but I'm guessing that the win conditions are too harsh and the season length too short, especially as the win conditions estimate that if every clan wanted to win there should be 80 matches played in 12 weeks.

rampantandroid · Mar 14, 2008

Thor said: ↑

I wouldn't say it's personal. Just factual events that occured leading up to the failure of what was season 1, and other reasons as to why season 2 is doing so poorly.
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Wonder why its doing poorly? Its because you feel the need to post shit about it all the time.

I question why Beerdude started this - he's backed out of the league in protest, so I question whether he just created it to start this whole mess, and thus is really abusing mod rights. I hope I am wrong there.

Evan · Mar 14, 2008

dizzyone said: ↑

Any clan that wants to try and win needs to have played atleast 8 matches, 8 matches in a timespan of 10 to 12 weeks, so I'd say there should be a quota. We'll see how it goes, but I'm guessing that the win conditions are too harsh and the season length too short, especially as the win conditions estimate that if every clan wanted to win there should be 80 matches played in 12 weeks.
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Explain your math to me. How do you arrive at 80 matches in 12 weeks?

Thor · Mar 14, 2008

rampantandroid said: ↑

Wonder why its doing poorly? Its because you feel the need to post shit about it all the time.

I question why Beerdude started this - he's backed out of the league in protest, so I question whether he just created it to start this whole mess, and thus is really abusing mod rights. I hope I am wrong there.
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Really now? Look through my post history and check the last time I posted about the league.

arklansman · Mar 14, 2008

Dubee's complaint is that there aren't enough clans participating.

The complaints about Evan are coming from people who aren't participating, and Cyber-kun.

Four replies while I write a two sentence post. x.x

Evan · Mar 14, 2008

arklansman said: ↑

The complaints about Evan are coming from people who aren't participating.
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Good point.

And if the debbie downers' goal is to get me to resign, it's not gonna happen.

dizzyone · Mar 14, 2008

rampantandroid said: ↑

Wonder why its doing poorly? Its because you feel the need to post shit about it all the time.

I question why Beerdude started this - he's backed out of the league in protest, so I question whether he just created it to start this whole mess, and thus is really abusing mod rights. I hope I am wrong there.
Click to expand...

Why accuse someone on starting an open discussion and judge them on their status? Are you accusing him on that he was expecting the discussion to lean towards a negative stand on the league, or that he would be inciting an in your eyes negative discussion on the league?

Thor · Mar 14, 2008

Evan said: ↑

Good point.

And if the debbie downers' goal is to get me to resign, it's not gonna happen.
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Lots of people are no longer participating because of the poor actions of those in charge. I don't see, in that case, why it matters of whether or not people are participating or not.

dizzyone · Mar 14, 2008

Evan said: ↑

Explain your math to me. How do you arrive at 80 matches in 12 weeks?
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10 clans, one of the win conditions state that you need to have played 8 matches.
The win condtions should be based on a good estimation of a clan trying to win and what is achievable, for the clan and for the league

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The General League Discussion Thread (NO GURLZ!!!!!)

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The General League Discussion Thread (NO GURLZ!!!!!)

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dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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