Ironically, when I saw that you replied to this thread, I had it in mind to put in a slight on how you want bullet drop so badly. you beat me to it. Bullet delay and bullet drop are for sniper games. Empires is not a sniper game. The empires community would riot if this was implemented, and you yourself might realize just how absurd it would be (Please do not discuss bullet drop or bullet delay in this thread, it is not about either one) However, I do appreciate that you support my point.
Also, the rationale for removal of the rifle because it is a noob timesink justifies removal of jeeps and vehicle customization since noobs can't do a god damned thing. Basing replacement of the scout rifle on how noobs waste time playing it ineffectively is a foolhardy reason. Godforbid riflemen being capable of engaging infantry in generally all areas without opposition, giving him a new weakness in an almost irrelevant location as most Empires maps are far and wide.
OuNin, it's only because of the new players, but also because it can be very overpowered against players on maps without cover. Due the fact that you can't really fight back against them.
That discourages the use of the Rifle... Look. The scout rifle is a decent part of the game. Everything you can hit with the scout rifle, you can hit with the NFHR/BECAR. However, the Riflemen lacks the ability to get behind enemy lines easily, /it takes time to prone+iron sight to hit the sniper at max range.
No. No it isn't. The problem is that Empires has too many flat open spaces, due to the need for tanks and building areas. These are not conductive to fun gameplay when combined with snipers. And, since we can't really remove tanks or construction, the rifle had to go. It is not supposed to still be in the game; it's just that its replacement has taken so long. The current rifle is not intended to be useful. Its design is supposed to discourage players from using it. It is intended to be removed completely once the shotgun is available; due to the large flat areas required for tanks and building, sniping and empires are simply never going to mix.
A shotgun with a single shot and has to be reloaded after every shot would be ideal. Maybe make it like the NF shotgun pistol and have it a double-barreled shotgun that has to be reloaded after those two shots. Making sure its effectiveness is greatly reduced or ineffective at long range is a necessity.
Single/Double barreled shotgun is not a good idea. To make a weapon of any use with such a small bullet count means the gun has to deal tons of damage in a single shot. Being instantly killed is not much fun. With an semi-auto shotgun or something that shoots fast, you can have high damage in the 80 range and have the shotgun be useful.
I cannot believe you do not think that is overpowered. You guys hate the shotgun pistol because it makes instant kills, yet you go ahead and suggest a fucking real shotgun with more ammo. Although it only has 80 damage, its semi automatic. What the fuck. The shotguns only downside was its ammo count and reload time, now you suggest a shotgun without those restrictions? Your Arguments against the scout rifle also contradict each other. First you say its a noob magnet and sucks too much to be of any use. They you argue passionately that its over powered because its long ranged and can kill people far away on Empires flat maps. What is it? is it OP or UP? Are you guys thinking straight at all or are you bashing Sniper Rifles just because.
Technically you already have the necessary data to produce a shotgun through the pistol shotgun NF has. You would just have to change the model, and maybe tweak the firepower and range a bit. I am looking at avoiding a weapon that's so powerful that one scout could rush in with speed boost and kill a whole squad of 5 in under a second. If they have an auto or semiauto shotgun in which they can rapidly fire half a dozen rounds in a matter of seconds, they can easily sweep in and get a good number of head shots on a whole squad before they react, technically become a one-man army. That would make people rage more than the mortars or even the sniper rifle back when it was a terror weapon. Quite frankly I only see shotguns in games being used as a close range killer for people who had some decent aiming due to the reload. A semi-auto shotgun will simply be too powerful; a pump-action shotgun will fall in much better, and make more sense as nearly all military shotguns are derived from civilian hunting shotguns.
Considering that the shotgun was based off my own scripts where infantry weapons had a bit more power, yeah it had the base of 80 damage. It could be fixed to deal 60 damage a shot due to the generic weapons being a bit weaker than what I scripted the damage for. Also want to know why this shotgun isn't overpowered? The damage is not as good as a rifle and if you spam that thing, you are going to miss. Are you stupid? I never said anything about the scout rifle in this thread of for a while, however now I will! The reason the scout rifle needs to be removed is simple though, the scout rifle is op or up depending on the map. It also doesn't fit the scout style. It also is stupid fighting in a sniper who can hide. It is true that you have the necessary data, but the accuracy and recoil for the shotty is not the same a shotgun will use. The versions I gave where a bit more better as a primary weapon instead of a secondary pistol. The only difference between pump-action shotguns and semi-auto shotguns are just firing rate in the end. I made the BE shotgun more pump-action and the NF more semi-auto. Either way, they both are about the same power in combat overall and both play well.
I don't mean you, I mean everyone who bashes the scout rifle. First they say oh its a noob magnet. It has no use. Then they go on about how scout rifle is so OP in big Empires maps. You say Sniper rifle is OP or UP depending on the map? You mean district is UP right? Well most people, even the noobs don't use sniper rifle in CQB unless they do it for the lulz. It isn't stupid fighting a sniper who can hide, its just aggravating for some people who can't accept the fact that they were killed by someone far away who they can't see. If you were traveling with your team like you are suppose to be, you'll get revived in an instant and kill the sniper.
Actually, if you were facing a sniper who knew what he was doing, your engy would go to rev you and the scout would take him down. Presuming you have 2 engies (1 revive, 1 repair), 1 rifleman, 1 gren and 1 scout, and the enemy scout is under cover. The rifleman in front goes down first, the reviving engy next and then the gren moves into take the scout with his mortar - the only thing that can shake him up really. The repair engineer puts up a wall a box, and the scout on your team goes into hide mode sneaking to snipe. The scout either locks down a whole squad this way, or eliminates it. Truly, in the hands of the master, it makes no sense. Like most things in Empires, anyone can counter your argument with a scenario that doesn't happen that often. This is why ranting people don't often get anywhere because the base of your argument has to be rock solid, not "rawr rawr rawr I want sniper rifle! rawr rawr rawr! shotgun sucks rawr rawr rawr!"
Everything is OP and UP depending on the map. Put in the shotgun, give it to scouts, play a couple of sessions with that weapon script on a crowded server, then see how much damage you did. I reckon that a cloaked scout can slaughter lots more people with a shotty than with a sniper rifle, or SMG, mostly because scouts hide in tight spaces, around buildings and bases. Their long-range weapon, is sort-of useless, but nevertheless fun. Can we make it more fun, and somewhat better? Let it leave a trace, like in Halo, so campers are spotted easily? I am all for adding shotgun, just to see how it would work, for the sake of lulz.
Not really. The shotgun is for a good scout who is doing what he is supposed to do. Close combat due to him sabbing and destroying everything in the background. It may not be as useful in Slaughtered as a sniper is, but it plays better.
Shotgun is overpowered. Large damage like the shotgun pistol with more rounds in the magazine. It will be very difficult to balance; there are variables for number of bullets, damage per bullet and cone. One variable off can mess up the balance by a great amount. The only way a script can be accurately tested is if it is made official, because only a small percentage of the community will attend unofficial tests, or the SVN version. The skill level of these players will be much higher than a random empires games. The shotgun pistol still isn't balanced well. You can take a person down from 100 to 0 in 2 seconds. Balance for shotgun will be even harder. Scouts rifle is bashed meaninglessly with generic arguments such as "it doesn't fit the scouts style of play". A scout by definition is one who observes and evaluates to gather information. A scout can do this regardless of what weapon he has. Many people have contradicting thoughts for the scouts role. Some believe they are suppose to be front line soldiers. Some believe they are suppose to infiltrate enemy bases. Other believe they are meant to watch at a distance and gather information will sniping high priority targets. To infer that fighting front line is the only way to play scout would not be representing the opinions of all of the community. The Sniper rifle is also said to be underpowered in some maps and overpowered in others. That is what a sniper rifle is suppose to be, a very specialized weapon. Do not deny that it cannot be useful, because they can be useful taking high priority targets, such as reviving engineers. That said, I agree that it would be very unuseful in close combat situations. However it should be apparent to anyone that a sniper or a sniper rifle would not be useful in such situations. The sniper rifle has crosshairs, which could confuse some of the newer players into believing that the sniper rifle is a close ranged gun. If a player still chooses a sniper rifle in close quarter combat when he knows better, it is the players fault and if he wants to be proficient in Empires, he needs to change his attitude.
