Well after they were nerfed to complete shit they are more annoying then good. I'm more against all the ruined pub games of 10 prone snipers laying around in start bases(i've seen this numerous times) I think the sniper rifle could work out for rifleman but also would need maybe a bigger tracer or muzzle flash.. Something, because unlike most FPS' empires doesn't have a damage indicator for where you are getting hit from. Scouts are best used when they sab a base before a rush. If the scout is in there sabs the rax and kills the few guys who are trying to repair it and then a squad or tank rush backs them up you get a base TOOK. And use your binocs to spot everything rite before it gets killed for more points.
The damage locator already exists. Newton's laws. When you get shot, you get nudged in the direction fire came from. The most rifle scouts I see ever is probably three. Oftentimes, I'm the only one out there. The best thing I can recommend to stop this is just limit the number of people that can play the class or use the weapon. Preferably the latter. It's a useful weapon and it finally isn't overpowered.
I can honestly say that I have never seen a scout soften up a base before a rush but instead to sabotage lone refineries or rear area bases. If you wanted to promote sabotaging before a rush then you would need to get rid of damage over time which encourages the lone wolfing.
Well when you run around frantically with speed upgrade like me your not paying attention to where you got nudged a little bit after being shot. And even when you spot the scout and hes laying down farther away then your weapon can shoot. Since scouts are not the default class anymore you won't see as many but people will still think "hmm big maps.. I want to snipe people" Limiting amounts of class would have to be server side like it is in DOD:S. But like I already said I think keeping infantry combat close range(not hella close) but about the mowtars range would make battles seem bigger and more epic instead of spread out lone wolfs. Well I've seen it and done it plenty of times with much success. Honestly all it takes is an lt with a scout passenger to kill a rax. I played scout for like 3 days when this latest emp version came out(cause i was pissed about mowtar nerf). I snuck into the enemy main, hid in a base and told everyone on my team to organize a rush right before I sabbed the base. Needless to say we won shortly after with only a few LT's rushing the base I sabbed. Every enemy that spawned I would cut down with the smg2. I also used the recon squad power to find them all cause our commander sucked and didn't give targets.
The scout rifle sends the wrong message that the scout is a sniper-like class. If you buff it enough so that it is an effective sniper rifle, then it would be OP on nearly every Empire's map. Just think of isle. If a good sniper could get one-hit kills, then the middle would be a death zone for any engy. Same with maps such as duststorm or mvalley.
I'm not asking for a buff. It's fine as it is. Also, it really isn't that difficult to pick out a scout shot by momentum. Anyway, whenever riflemen fire at me when I'm scunting, I get scared shitless since I'm suppressed by their wall of death. The scout should be specialized anti-infantry for both very close and far ranges where the rifleman is generally alright. The scout must be dynamic.
I have seen both, and I have seen it work effectively, however, it is more effective to take an engineer with you in a jeep to take out the isolated refineries with a sabotage deconstruct combo. Most of the times, I see jeeps that have 2 people. Lone wolfing isn't a huge issue anymore
Welcome to BSID, where you get to see shit done right! If you haven't by now, then it's a safe bet that you will.
I've seen that "pre-rush base sab" happen twice. I was part of these things both the times. When it worked, it worked like a charm. Me and an other scout sabbed the shit out of everything, stickied the CV, binoc'd him, and then our artillery blew everything to hell in a matter of seconds. Shit was so cash. There really was a big factor of caution and fear involved though, with us hiding in plain sight. Big problem with scouts now, is that people don't expect scouts to be used, and therefore don't go looking for scouts, or just don't know where to look. I suggest we get a fix for that somehow. (Maybe flashlight lowering the Hide level when a scout is illuminated? I'll make a suggestion thread, if I think it over.) Keep on topic guys :D
The only capacity I have ever found Scout useful to the team in is sabotaging the enemy barracks while its under attack. That however, is a cheap tactic, especially considering how heavily buffed sabotage is now.
As far as I can tell scouts are becoming a short range infiltration and trouble causing class to distract the enemy and soften stuff up for an attack Shotgun works well for that, it allows them to one shot someone then re hide quickly. Personally I think scouts should be removed entirely because they encourage everything empires is not about, but whatever they are staying so they might as well do something. The sniper rifle needs to go anyway, its not fun and it encourages camping.
Everything? Really?... Now I'm just intrigued. Ive heard "oh thats not good for empires", "there's no roles left" or "there's no defined role" but i don't think ive heard that before... Would you mind elaborating?
You know, your points about the shotgun and the sniper is funny, because they're both interchangeable. Shotguns will also encourage camping, and even more so, spawn camping. And honestly, what? "Everything empires is not about?" What the hell are you talking about? And yes, the sniper rifle probably needs to go away. What needs to stay however, is the scout rifle with scope. Infantry combat needs that extra bit of ranged firepower, for when mortars are not going to work and you can't aim far enough with the heavy rifle. For those who make the "role" arguments, you could effectively just play Empires with Engineers. Everything else is just decoration.
I was just browsing by and this caught my attention...and I just had to say something. The reason the shotty makes a big difference from the sniper rifle is the range at which it happens. Someone within smg2 distance is much less of an annoyance and more in-your-face threat, than someone hiding on a ledge a few hundred yards away. And yes, spawn camping could be too, but hardly more dangerous and annoying as a gren mining a rax, or a rifleman setup with HMG...or even just prowling with a regular. The point, I think, is it's in-your-face rather than a guessing game with infinite annoyance factor.
But I still argue for the need to retain the option for longer-ranged firepower than the Rifleman, for reasons of actual weapon variety (rather than "3 different flavours of mint ice cream"), and that some sort of counter against Riflemen at range is necessary. Every class should be capable in infantry combat to some extent (except Bloody Bloody Engineer, who should be hit with the Nerf Bat until its' children are born blind, mute and dumb).
Empires is about teamwork, and the scout is a class which appears to be entirely based of going off on your own. Either the scout is perched on a hill behind you with his scoped rifle and hide or he is sneaking his way into the enemy base alone. Engineers are by far the most versatile class in empires but that is because they are there to do the essential tasks that need doing, such as building and healing. The rifleman have a clear role as infantry killers and they have a well defined place in the game. The grenadier has the anti-tank role and while the grenadier/tank balance needs some work it is not insurmountable. Having a long ranged rifle that is effective at killing riflemen will be even more effective at killing the other classes and I fail to see how having the scoped rifle will make it anything more than "4 different flavours of mint ice cream". Why do you feel that the rifleman needs a counter at range? Why do you feel the need to remove the engineer's combat capabilities? Making the engineer defenceless will not make scouts more useful or fix any other problems.
Teamwork? As the game is now, it's not very conducive to pub teamwork. And the main fault is how the skills are made. Scouts as they are now are not going to be very effective in squads and the only way to use them would be, as you have pointed out "sniping" and "ramboing". But then again, that's also the fault of the players. I have used the Scout with a high percentage of success to help take down a forward enemy barracks, but this is in no small part due to the fact that Sabotage is a brokenly overpowered skill. ---------- Not to mention that they have good combat capabilities that aren't much worse than any other class at any range, the ability to set up turrets and walls which provide additional firepower and cover against gunfire, and the ability to supply their own ammunition. Combined with vehicles, they can effectively operate on their own with little to no outside interference. Maybe Grenadiers might be required for anti-vehicle work, were not for the fact that they are so incredibly ineffective in that role, as they don't have enough ammunition to operate out in the field too far from any armouries or ammo supplies, and the fact that vehicles can easily gun or run them down or retreat if things turn sour. So again, decoration. They're not very useful except for the mortar, which used to be an excellent medium to long range anti-infantry weapon but now since has been hit with the nerf bat, making a weapon in the niche of the Scout Rifle more important than ever. But it is still, decoration. A game can work fine with high primacy of Engineers, as it was then, and as it is now in some cases. A lot of this is due to the fact that vehicles dominate infantry, but this is also due to notsolackluster offensive capabilities on the part of Engineers. ----------- So a Scout Rifle will be hard to balance. That is undeniable. Range must be above that of other infantry weapons while still remaining effective but not overly powerful in combat. The inherent advantage of pretty much any scoped weapon is higher clarity of targets at longer range. A Rifleman with Heavy Rifle only gets a minor zoom when in ironsights, and has to rely on saturation in order to actually hit anything. If someone's behind cover, chances are you will most likely wind up hitting nothing. With a scoped weapon, you can aim at any exposed parts you see poking out. The best way I can suggest to balance the Scout Rifle is to make the damage slightly less than the Heavy Rifle, make fall-off much less over longer distances, increase rate of fire, and limit ammunition while maintaining high accuracy in single shots (decrease significantly if rifle is fired within two seconds of the previous shot).
Well, it's been said before, but i'll just reiterate what the problem was with the scout in concept form. It's the fact that he has to be far enough away from the main body of the team, but is also tied to being close. Realistically speaking, a scout would...well, recon the area, and then hold that position until the rest of his squad arrives. In Empires, he would then assist the squad in a dual capacity as marksman, and also sabouteur - again, two things which are polar opposites. Edit: Why do people always say this? You need teamwork to do most of the things in Empires, from area capture to infantry combat.
