Again the problem here is the stacking. If both teams had equal skilled vets and other team did a rsh its easily stopped by killspawning and stuff like that, but teams arent. The game theoretically is more fun with these fast ending tactics cause it encourages fast gameplay and reaction, too bad in practice it ends up with stacking and using these tactics against noobs.
Killspawning is a shitty mechanic. It is necessary for current empires, but it really feels rather roundabout in a way, there should be something specific that the commander can do. We had that particular discussion a dozen times already though. I can't really talk though, I am not that much of a fan of competitive empires. I just like shooting stuff and driving tanks occasionally. Having actual team support is also one of the main reason I play this over battlefield. Just remember that there are dozens of players like me playing this game.
Honestly, competitive Empires games can be just like that. I don't think the definition is the same for everyone.
The misconception is what do people feel like should be the norm skill in pubs. Im pretty sure everyone knows the difference between pub and comp but not between what can you expect from pub players and wha do you feel like should be the skill of pub players.
it has nothing to do with skill but with dedication. if id be playing a scrim/pug and comm tells me to killspawn, i wouldnt think twice, if im playing pub and enjoy what im doing atm - no chance, someone else do it. and thats the whole discrepancy, has null to do with my skill level. but whatever, in the end FN will come with his blahblahblah and then trickster will come with his but im so much more elite blahblahblah and you know whats gonna change in the end. nothing* *except for some really nice new features. but they dont fix stuff.
It's that attitude which makes it so easy for just 1 player to win every single pub game with little to no opposition. Everyone takes the assumption that it's "someone's problem", but never their own problem. It's your team's problem and you are on that team, ergo it should be your problem, ergo you should be responding to something like that.
It looks like flasche removed the stick from his ass so hard it ended up in Trickster's. :D It's not like this discussion hasn't come up every month or so in one thread or another over the last couple years. For me it depends on the, I guess for a lack of a better word, 'atmosphere' of the match. If everybody is being serious and trying their best then yeah, I'm up for some serious business. If it's just another round of duststorm and people are doing what they want, that's fine with me too. As for 'super serious all the time or bust' mentality, I don't get it. This can lead to games that literally last three minutes (yay stacking) - and it has multiple games in a row in the recent past. Recent as in two/three weeks ago when somebody did multiple rounds back to back entire team comm rushes start of game against teams that consisted of almost entirely new players. Needless to say the server emptied, and fast. What a surprise!
should, would, could, but isnt ... i once played the game like that and it was nothing but frustrating for me while self-proclaimed pros had their fun pewpewing at eachother. i also was stupid enough to hop into the commchair and command for people that didnt give a single shit i said because they were so superpro they could just do their dumb shit which added nothing to teamplay. my conclusio? i dont command anymore - the team has no or a shit comm? not my problem. if i do like what im doing atm but someone thinks it would be better to do his shit? well, not my problem either. which doesnt mean i dont want to win rounds, but i want to win my way - and if this means i want to crawl from base to base and use sniperrifles i will do it. if my team cant win while im doing this? well not my fault, its a noob team. i just resort do doing what the majority of you do. because why should i be stopping for each ref so you can spend it on tanks, while you just run by and have fun shooting people? or why should i killspawn to repair a base? you could do aswell. on a pub you dont agree to play like the teamleader wants you to - you often have no idea who would lead the team anyway. and dont tell me comm, everyone sees comm as building drop and research monkey at best. yet the argument always was, "but balance around high tier play", but it only happens once in a while, the vast majority of rounds is played in pub scenarios and its like the game should be balanced. teamwork should be second in balancing considerations, in pubs teamwork only happens, the old "but x grens can take on a tank so its not op" doesnt hold in a pub game, people are going to decide what is good and not themselfs. its not me being unwilling in general, its just that im not gonna be the dumb one, doing all the boring shit for everyone while others have fun, anymore.
flasche's view is different because he couldn't give a rats ass any more. He's paid his dues, now he can do whatever the hell he likes. Lol, 16? Just use 8 and flip it, c'mon dude :p No, what I meant was in the time where it was much easier to do such things, it...I guess people tended to be more vigilant. Now they're just lax and are like "this shouldn't happen", when before they had to step up or be pwned. Not that I'm saying it was good before, either though. But the shortness these days isn't happening from a 9-mine and your cv going lol on its back. These days it's just...the game is over pretty quickly, which I find bizarre.
You are seriously living in delusion dude. YOU join for ten minutes and do no team play, only rush's and parachuting from the hills with your rush squad. You voice spam the commander, since of course your tactics are more important than anyone else playing or any other efforts. You are calling me on my NF/Trickster like exploits ? Really ? If you can't win within ten minutes you quit. When you fail in your attempts to rush the com you scream at the team and abuse them for being shit players. Is that what you are recommending I should do ? Because I can certainly pull out the abuse stops and do incessant rushes on noobs. I see it all the time and easily defuse your rush's while my team dominates the maps. I have been trained well by your tactics, but only push into FN monitoring mode when you are online. I now add Trickster to that list and in large games monitor with enhanced vision from the com vehicle, last time defeating about 20 different attacks on main. This game has become one where people will do non stop rushing on the com at the risk of losing the whole map due to smaller numbers pushing forward. When you take the COM vehicle I can dominate you easily. Granted you are a superb rifleman, but you rarely play the game the way it was designed to be played. Most people enjoy a team victory. If the team is 6 players and you squad revive all of them then you are hailed as god like. I can see how that is arguably good team play, but I still think a hollow victory and arguably an exploit of the weakness of the command vehicle. Hell all it takes is to pin the command vehicle and there is no way out. And NF COM can be easily turreted while it is still moving. BE gets second seat APC and low profile com vehicle - and now NF has more tank benefits than BE. I had two BE mediums beating up our base for 30 minutes on a game, all the nubs were building turrets. I would jump out and repair the radar and VF every minute or so and they could not take out our base with tanks. Mediums are a complete waste of research. A gren's weapons are stronger and is harder to kill than a medium tank. The new scripts encourage dumping players into a base and completely destroying it. ML turrets are shit against tanks now. I think instead of making the game more fun for head to head tank battle it has been nerfed to make ground troops much more powerful. Sargent Security - regardless of how long I've played and how badly I suck, I normally am on top of the scoring board. I know how to be a decent Engineer although I think I am only mediocre rifleman and gren. I do know how to COM and organize a team. I train nubs, so am at least more than average benefit to the community.
The sad thing about the game we rushed the opponent team is that a buddy ScRaT was trying to be very fair. When he had 3 players vs 1 - he stood on his rax roof waiting for players to join. We have some very fair players and I really enjoy playing when they are online. I only rush in response to someone elses rush. I only research Arty in response to some shit com on Money researching arty. I think the game is about individual players working well together and supporting each other. I think the com should have more protection so that it keep shit coms from dying quickly. I think a nub should be able to command while a vet tells him how to research and what to do. I do that all the time and it is more fun for me on the field and him learning something new. If the devs decide they want to keep the com as easy target for kills unless they spawn as scout with enhanced every game and don't contribute by building anything - that is their call. At some point the community will dwindle to a handful of players again. When playing with a nubs team the last few nights against stacked teams I have said a handful of times "If you do not respawn at main within the next minute - you will not have a main - do it now". But Tricksters says we deserve to lose a winning game because ONE Engineer is throwing grenades at our main. And if the com fails to kill him - he gets turretted and game over. Good luck with that. What idiot would design a command vehicle with no protection other than running people over, then add the ability to turret or wall that defenseless vehicle which also defines the end of the game? I highly suspect the original designer of this game did not put that into this game. Someone deciding to prove they are a great player and wanting to single handed win games did.
The game is designed to be played in the way that grants victory in the most swift and calculated manner. Through coordination we take advantage of the intricacies not immediately obvious to players such as yourself and use them to win. In scrims, these delicately sequenced combinations make up the whole of nearly all plays in the match. There's a point when 'normal' empiresmod doesn't entertain you anymore. When the only thing that you want to do is kill cv's and refine your skills in coordination, that's when you've passed the threshold and can start to see what this game is really about. You'll be waiting for something somewhere and instead of browsing on your smartphone or whatever else, you'll be thinking of the best ways to use squad charge to gain an advantage in emp_mvalley @ 3minutes.
Cool - you and trickster agree. I can end games in 3 minutes as well as anyone else - game on, and on and on and on until one succeeds and fucks the game for everyone else. I'll get a squad of five guys I regularly play with and we'll perfect the art until no one can play this game. Death Squad - form up...
You know guys, everyone here plays emp for fun, I hope, and fun in empires is different for everyone. What most oldschool vets, I think enjoy is fast paced front line battling and close combat ninjaing or combat in general. We dont wanna sit back and do slow shit, we wanna pew pew at each other. "self-proclaimed pros had their fun pewpewing at eachother." We enjoy killing and getting killed revived and constant fighting and dick growing its fun playig in a tight squad manner, having to killspawn back gives you a lot of fun for a very short time but then you are stuck in base having to get back to the front lines etc etc. tldr pew pewing each other vet squad vs noobs is fun because its fast paced. Im not saying its good im saying its fun. ow yeah another thing thats fun is commanding massive games 20vs20 and winning with rush tactics because its you who coordinated your team into winning, I know it empties the server but if both team have capable adaptive comms it might turn into those 1 in a 100 matches that is just epicly fast paced wher action is happening all over the place. anyway thats my 50 cent noone cares about cause paradox WHAT EVUR
Nah. If I'm honest pretty much everyone who didn't go through the 1.8 testing has not really experienced this game at its best. Say what you want about me, it'll probably be fairly accurate, but in those days we had everyone on the server fighting tooth and nail for an inch and a yard, where each mortar that sailed through the air was deadly accurate and cost you a life that had to have been well used before it hit. Where for every JPL mortar there was a BSID exploit that was just so damn ingenious you had to give credit, and where everyone on the server knew what the damn hell was going on, and if you slipped past you were just that good. Where everyone on the server was dangerous, and you had to be ever vigilant of that one engy or gren who would slip past the lines and take down your whole base. No offense JGF, but there wasn't a choice between how to play the game back in those days, either. There really shouldn't be a choice now, and the fact that a choice exists is a BAD THING. You should never be in a position where there's a chance to end a game early but you don't do it because you want to be sporting (tiny friendly games aside). That actually happened the last time I played, where Trickster offered to end the game - because on his lonesome he'd made it to the enemy base and could do it with a squad lead. That's just kinda shameful...I remember being powerful as an engy, having a gun that could mow down five enemies if I was good enough (hint, yes I was and so were many others). I remember being dicked on by riflemen who had a gun that would kill 8 people in a row, if they knew how to move a mouse. I remember being able to take down a base by myself, quickly. I remember grens having almost as much luck. I saw Trickster before (maybe this thread, maybe another) talking about how tactics have moved on. I think that's bunk, tbh. He may have a good scrimming clan, but I really have only seen people be less effective on the servers these days. Either that or they're effective at ending the game quickly - simply because now 5 people who know what they're doing can't be stopped in game. Because no one else knows what they're doing, and if they do, they're in that 5 man squad ninja-ing. I think guns are less effective now. I think the rof is low, I think the balance is off (that's orange box's codes fault), and I think that actually means that each soldier is balanced for one enemy, so the output of infantry combat is slower. It's 1vs1 as default and whereas before the tactical decision you made coming into the combat was more important that what you did once you got there (i.e. your guns were so lethal if you managed to get through, everything died), now it's much more about whether you or the enemy has better aim. Which is fine, except it means when you survive, most of the time (if you're not a rifleman) you're fairly low on health and you either have to go back and get healed or you likely won't survive more than one more encounter. Actually, maybe guns have a lot more to do with what goes on these days than I thought. Maybe the guns are just too wimpy, so it's a lot more cs like in combat than traditional shooter. That is, the combat is based more on who's the better shooter, rather than who can get the drop on the other dude. Maybe that needs to be changed. Maybe we can keep specific weapons for that style of play, but keep some for the more arcadey feel. This post doesn't really have a proper point, except FN I want to point out that you probably haven't played a 'normal' game in a long time. I seriously doubt that it's been a short time where you've played a game with 20 people or more on each team where everyone knows what they should be doing - and are doing it. If you had, there would be no way you could get bored with it. - If the last time you can say you've been challenged was long ago, you're not good, everyone else is just that bad -
Ikalx I think you pointed out something really important, and then ignored it later on in your post just to stab at my ego. That being said, what I highlighted in red from your post was a result of the changes of the orange box port from 2.12. Guns no longer killed as quickly than they did in previous versions and were pretty much neutered. At the same time, lots of members of the community were calling for more 'skill-based shooting' mechanics. Lots of people even went as far as to say that they thought the devs should just take the gunplay right out of CS:S. Baddies (well shit, what else could you call them?) were complaining about dying too quickly. There was just too much resistance to bringing weapons to their pre-orangebox levels. To this day they remain shadows of the former death saws they once were. It's not that everyone else has gotten worse and that I'm not good just because everyone else is bad. The guns were made to have higher skillcaps to use. People, believe it or not, have skill caps. There is only so good a player can get. I am lucky to have a tremendously high skill cap when it comes to fps gaming. Back in the day I slaughtered even larger numbers than I do now, but that was because people got dropped faster. I remember dropping into trances with my crosshairs dancing from red diamond to red diamond, irises fluttering, counting shots because there wasn't time to look at the ammo count.. confronting 4-6 enemies simultaneously while sprinting forward. Shit like that was what made you feel elite. Nowadays you're better off gren.
