If you get revived you start with 10 health and you regenerate the rest in 3-5seconds

A superior version of revive would have obvious utility. You play the game all the time, surely you know how absurdly dangerous 2-5 engineers butt-buddying in the middle of a firefight can be. Immortality mode is worth taking a skill slot.

 

Is there anyone who does not think revive needs to be changed?

 

Seems like no one.

 

I hate and love revive. Im cool with it starting with low health and going up. I hate tho how when an engy revives an engy, that revived engy has full calc to do more reviving.

 

Nerf revive as Mayama asked in first post.

 

revive is fine as it is. regular heal needs to be buffed.

 

Revive used to be ok when weapons weren't so pathetic now any retard can bunny hop around spamming mouse1 on the ground. IMO should just start at 25-50% health.

 

As with revive (and other stuff in Empires) I think the only problem is, that it becomes too strong on offense when you pick a squad full of reviving engineers. I experienced it from both sides: the unlucky rofflewhore + some dudes around against this kind of threat. And the engywhore (necromancer ? ) fighting with it's calculator, making even the SHIT (like any brenodi) to live / smell again!
All the time, the necro party won the battle. So mass reviving (not just the sq ability) is overpowered? No way, can't be... really? nooo.

But, perhaps... maybe... if somebody wants to solve it don't think about health reducing or something like that, cuz it will only give free points to the enemy. At the recent state I had many double kills from the same guy when he got revived, so a health reduce definietly makes it worse for the undead / patient dude.

Some folks posted a suggestion of disabling weapon draw for a few seconds on the fresh revved guys. EXCELLENT! This is what we are looking for. Problem solved. It will cripple the instant uberpowered offense which is good, and with full health the revved guy have a chance to take cover, and on succeed can start fighting as normal again, which is good.
So revive will be a frontline holding skill, not an auto infantry combat win.

DeC Máj Oppinjön! :mad:

 

it would be less fun to be revived beyond your own will just to be shot the hell up again. necromancy is a legitimate tactic, just like spawning APCs. it's all about knowing how to counter. once APCs got inherent spawning capabilities back, it seemed almost overpowered, but people started to learn how to defend against them.

it's just a matter of people not used to the resurgence of engineer squads and people smugly wanting to have killed an entire squad without any resistance.

 

What does that mean, "legitimate tactic", other than that its not an exploit? Engy squads are a way for 5 vet stackers to take down a rax and beat a team of 20.

So I'm thinking, do the weapons block for several seconds like ppl have said, as well as a block on reviving for both reviver and revivee for a few seconds as well even if they have enough charge.

Lowering health will nerf it too much and will make ppl not want to revive as much.

 

Mayama's original suggestion is absolutely fine.

 

No its about people wanting to be able to win against inferior players. Pressing mouse1 on a corpse takes 0 skill. Revive whoring is just abusing game mechanics and with the current weapon balance its OP. It has always been used its just stupidly overpowered now that the weapons are so weak.

Its not like engy rev squads were hugely less effective either it just took actual skill in that you had to engange and kill your enemy a lot of time time before you could revive someone and if a rifleman got the drop on you from behind there was a good chance you were fucked instead of just being able to "LOL REVIVE SPAM" because of the shitty ROF and shitty damage.

Engineer squads take 1/10 of the skill that they used to with these infantry weapons.

 

^ This ^

 

I honestly don't really see a reason for the change, I don't immediately get what it's supposed to prevent or improve, but at the same time I don't really see it causing problems.

No preference either way on this one.

 

l2mortar

this would hardly be an issue if everybody had a form of revive, with the revive skill being the most effective, with doing the e-build buff thing.

that said, as-is, it is an embarrassment to die to an engineer squad when the engineers choose their calculators of their guns and still managing to kill your lonewolf bullshit.

counterstrike is gay.

 

don't bring knives to gunfights
don't go to battle against revive engineers and embarrass yourselves

qed

 

no matter how you slice it, that is a community issue. if you're going to have five vet stackers on a team with no counter on the other team, the game is obviously broken in some other means. nerfing players would result in even MORE stacking in order to compensate for the weakening of the individual. as-is, the game empowers individuals to a great extent and making players smaller would just marginalize the existence of infantry.

the issues lie in skill disparity in the community (not much you can do when putting two or more years of experience against a few weeks/months). making more weird nitpicky game nuances would break the game even more.

half of survival with revive isn't just w+mouse1. maybe if you played the game/were good at the game, you would see.

 

This won't stop engys from rev/squad point whoring but it will help them be a little less invincible.

 

Counter strike is a fine game for what it is. Insulting it has nothing to do with empires and is such a bullshit straw man argument.

This is the problem with the community is all we have left is counter-strike hating players who just want the game kept as an unituitive grind because it benefits them. Its more of a chore and more complicated to play empires to win than it is to play most MMORPGs.

learning a bunch of gameplay mechanics != skill

Fact of the matter is the weapons are so weak now that engineer revive is OP. The weapons do like 1/2 the damage the used to and now you have 2x the time to revive and riflemen can kill 1/2 the people in a single clip.

Why shouldn't one lone wolf rifleman who sneaks up on a squad be able to kill them if hes that much better? SMG1 was a fuckload stronger as well in 1.073-2.12 its not like it was just riflemen were able to rape the engineers faces off unless he was significantly better than them.

We aren't suggesting that riflemen become some OP gods that can rape everyones faces off were saying weapons should be reverted to 2.12 type stats and that revive is OP now because it requires hardly any skill to use and riflemen or other engineers can't counter it with their pathetic damage.

Whole game has gone down the track of being more and more of grind and requiring less and less skill.

Sabotage = press e while being hidden or drive around in a jeep holding e on raxes
Low dmg weapons = healspam and revive
heat(not new but still) = turn good tank battles into pressing mouse1 on screen
getting rid of dual small artys being good = removing the only tank that required real skill to use

Game has gone from fun but laggy (1.073) to really good and on the track to being the NS of source (2.12) to being just meh (2.24).

Seriously the whole going around with a squad of people with revive and walls isn't some new godly tactic you just invented and everyone wants it nerfed. People have been doing it since I started playing. If anything there is far less tactics/skills used in empires these days and the competitive scene isn't what it used to be.

 

^This, we still have to retain the deathmatch part of the game, or else building and killing and reviving won't make the game progress. The reason so much people play counter-strike source is because the game was flawless in its gameplay, same with how so much players played Wolfenstein: Enemy territory and Tribes 2, because they still retained the fun aspect of wanting to kill someone else. If it's extremely difficult to kill someone in a game, and to add to that, you might have to kill them twice before they get 1 respawn, how would you feel you've done something, and why would you find it fun?