How to encourage players to play as gren.

In short.
Death Nuke Bomb RPGs = Stoopid.

 

There is no reason to be rude and insulting over this. If my argument contains fallacies you can point them out without having to resort to rudeness.

So this super nuclear death RPG would be very different from how nukes (now HIT missiles) are portrayed in Empires? In which case why not call them kill in one RPGs instead of super nuclear death RPGs. Perhaps you should have clarified what you meant by what you said instead of insulting my intelligence.

Of course boosting the RPGs destructive power will make a few more people play grenadier, and if you had read my post you would know that I support a general increase in RPG damage. However I believe that making the grenadier's weapons easier to use will make it more used than increasing the damage it does.

I do not posit an either/or situation in my post and I am supportive of a general increase in RPG damage. However I believe making the grenadier's weapons easier to use will make a bigger difference than just increasing the damage of the RPG. It is not the RPG that is the main problem, the mortar is one of the more tricky weapons to use and the fact that you need to invest a significant amount of time into mastering the use of these weapons will put off a considerable proportion of people who would otherwise play grenadier. Increasing the damage would encourage more people to learn how to use the grenadier but removing much of the difficulty would make it easier for more people to use the class at its full potential and discover whether they enjoy playing the class or not rather than playing the class because it is for the moment the best class.

 

I still think making the mowtar a deadly weapon to contend with rifleman would bring back and make new fans of the gren class. Which would in turn lead to more RPGS being use which add up as far as damage and would help take down better tanks..

That's just my opinion tho. Because when the mowtar was able to DM with rifleman it gained a dedicated fan base that basically turned into JPL and some randoms in other clans.. People like predator from epic and blowerupper from bsid know the fun it can bring. It's really a weapon that will keep and has kept people loyal to this game. The RPG is basically IMO the secondary weapon or even third with mines in the two hole.

Fix dig in bug and give grens the same body armor rifleman have.

 

SHOW US LOVES AGAINS

 

AGH. NO. BAD IDEA. Makes for gameplay that makes you think it's instagib...except you're unarmed.

In other words, Gren.s will start shooting people with mortars, not vehicles. I say we give him a really nice sidearm and move on with our lives. Maybe even moar ammo, that's my major complaint.

 

No. They will actually be able to survive on the battle field and be able to drop forward mines and kill a rifleman thats sniping him while hes trying to guide RPG's onto a tank.

Grens and Rifleman should be anti tank/anti inf. Gren obviously better at tanks and rifleman better at inf killing. And that leaves scouts and engineers to take care of buildings.

 

Rabble Rabbble Rabble Rabble

 

If they're focusing on killing riflemen, they're not guiding RPGs into tanks.

The problem (however you want to approach it) is that grenadiers can't kill tanks, not particularly well. The fact that they used to be better at killing infantry disguised this, but it didn't actually make them functional at what they were supposed to be doing. The primary fun of playing grenadier should be in the thrill of guiding in low-cost weapons to blow up high-value targets. It shouldn't be 'rifleman, but with slightly different flavor/stats'.

If you really, really feel the need for an anti-infantry grenade launcher, why not suggest that as a rifleman weapon, where it belongs? If the existing rifleman rifles were nerfed and, at the same time, an anti-infantry grenade launcher was provided to them as an alternative to their existing primary weapons, I think you would see both rifleman-sniping and grenadiers who ignore tanks declining sharply in numbers.

Of course, grenadiers would still need an RPG that can actually hurt non-paper tanks, but that's a given.

Either way, the fact that rifleman weapons are too good at sniping is a rifleman problem, not a grenadier problem.

 

Currently you try to kill a rifleman and hit him in the face with a mowtar and hes not dead so you have to try and press your luck and shoot an rpg and full pistol clip at him. Then the tanks rolls up and you have to reload every weapon while the tank easily kills you. Now imagine having 3 grens where only 2 mowtar shells were needed to kill that rifleman, and then you have 3 rpgs ready to go against that tank. That was how it use to go down.

Gren's only ignore tanks now because its usually a lone wolf gren against a tank with good armor. If the mowtar was good again like it use to be he would have more grens to help like I've mentioned already. The RPG's add up and kill tanks with ease.

I've been playing rifleman a lot lately and with accuracy upgrade and bursts I can kill grens with just heads peeping out from behind walls while easily dodging mowtar shells. But like I said give grens that body armor so he can survive for a little bit longer so he has a chance.

The RPG and Mowtar are the same weapon. If you give the mowtar to the rifleman he will have to lose the sticky nade. And honestly he would be the only class worth playing. And also the gren would become more useless than the scout.

 

if a rifleman is shooting a gren, that precludes any ability of the gren to shoot RPGs into tanks, whether they be homing, guided, etc. The rifleman has to be dealt with first.

Because a rifleman isn't a grenadier, he's a rifleman (by definition he uses rifles and not grenade launchers) and a grenadier isn't "anti-tank guy," he's a grenadier. The concept that riflemen are anti-infantry only and grenadiers are anti-tank only is artificial.

Jeez, talk about nerf wars. why not just make grenadiers more effective at dealing with riflemen? If a gren can't kill a tank because riflemen completely dominate infantry, then that just might be a grenadier problem as well.

 

Stfu dubee you just want a mortar because you're basically the best person with it.

Grens should be anti tank and anti building, that's 2 out of 3 situations they should excel in, being able to fight infantry on top of that is ridiculous.

 

For what it's worth, grenadiers have been quite terrible at killng both buildings and tanks for some time.

People continue to adhere to this archaic notion that grenadiers should be the "anti-tank" class (and occasionally the anti-building class) and nothing else. I would like to think that intelligent people are capable of designing more intricate gameplay than that while simultaneously maintaining the robustness of the class.

Making the gren a specialist isn't going to encourage people to play them more, it's going to encourage them to play another, more general class more (the engineer or rifleman) and to discourage them from playing as a gren.

People who played a lot of gren before 2.23 weren't killing any more tanks than they are now - they were always mainly using them as an anti-infantry class with different utility than a rifleman. People who are serious about the grenadier class and play it from start to finish of a match will tell you that its anti-tank capabilities have always been secondary to its anti-infantry capabilities (mines, mowtar, and on one team, an overpowered pistol) and that is why they play the gren, not because they can kill tanks with them, but because they can kill infantry with them. Only the casual players use grenadier only as an anti-tank tool. However, my argument is that now that grenadiers are weaker against infantry (their power against tanks hasn't changed much in recent history, indeed since 2.23 it may have even increased slightly) more people beginning to notice that they also suck against tanks, i.e. they no longer have a useful role in the 2.24 empires team.

 

We have 3 other fucking classes which are designed to kill infantry, if I switch to the class with AN RPG MINES AND A MORTAR I EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO FIGHT TANKS.

That is why you pick grenadier, not to slaughter infantry on some sprint jump duck fire retard spree, it's because your fucking base is getting overun by tanks and you have no tanks to fight back. It's not intricate gameplay, it's just the fucking mortar you bastards want. Call it a grenade launcher, give it to rifleman, I'd be happy if my gren got stickies anyway.

 

A grenade launcher isn't a rifle - I have no idea why you'd give it to a rifleman, or why you'd want to name it the grenade launcher and give it to any class other than the grenadier.

 

you stfu fool, I want the game to be how it use to be when it was fun. I don't care about being the best at anything I just want it to be fun again. "we already have 3 anti inf classes" stfu fool every class is anti inf. Some are just better at it then others and I think the guy with the fucking rockets n booms should be the 2nd best at that.

Like I already said grens should be anti tank and inf.. NOT BUILDING. Engineers, Scouts, and TANKS take care of buildings. No need for a 4th thing to also do damage to buildings.

GO SUCK A GOAT

 

Games should be fun
When your playing a class that has no chance in hell to kill the other classes, well that's just not fun

 

I don't think they need to have no chance in hell. I wouldn't object to it -- I think they'd still be playable, if done right and if they were deadly enough to tanks -- but I don't think it's necessary.

But I don't think they should be any stronger against infantry than the scout or engineer, either (and, possibly, weaker than the scout; nobody seems to know where the scout is going at all.)

If the class was genuinely effective at killing tanks, it would be fun, regardless of all other concerns. Blowing up a 1000-res tank with free infantry is inherently awesome, and they need to be enhanced in that direction; that is the class I would like to play -- sneaking or crawling around through cover, flanking the enemy, avoiding dangerous riflemen (who shouldn't have sniper-accurate weapons but that's another issue), then guiding in an RPG to take out the most powerful vehicles in the game. Anticipating the enemy's attack, taking up a key position, and using your weapon's long range + mines you planted in advance to ambush their tanks and cripple their assault.

They do not need to also be good at slaughtering infantry on top of that.

 

Reading this thread I keep seeing either:
A: Gren should kill infantry and not buildings
or
B: Gren should kill buildings and not infantry

Whatever... I got bored and thought: "Roshambo" and drew this:

Red means that that class DEMOLISHES the given target, Green means its sorta effective against it as a secondary.

Eg: A good gren should be able to take down a medium tank in 2-3 hits/most of his spawn ammo. However, taking down a building should take more.

Of course, I suspect more people want the scout and engie switched... but meh

 

All infantry have no chance to kill tanks which are basically an extended class.

Boing flip.