Someone PLEASE explain to me how they're different, they both end the game instantly at the whim of one person. So how come it's ok to ninja but not to grief?
Well, it takes a certain skill to sneak into the enemy base as a class that can kill the CV(especially since a scout can't take out the cv... and the classes that can don't have the stealth to do so)... That's Ninjaing. It takes a dumbass with nothing better to do than make people pissed no skill, just good timing to steal the CV from the comm (who's being a good comm and helping build stuff) and drive it into a lake or an ML farm. One is jackassery to help your team... the other is just jackassery to everyone...
I don't see how it helps your team, winning means nothing if the rest of the team did nothing. And how is something different or positive, if it's simply harder to do?
The main differance is that greifers are ruining the game for their own team, which is just pissing everybody off. Ninjas atack the enemy comm through stealth and their succes depends on the enemy team not being able to defend their comm properly/comm not putting up mg turrets. So if i encounter a ninja i can shoot him, but if i encounter a griefer i can just clench my fist and rage, hence why griefers are so much more hated than ninjas.
- Ninjaing can be countered through gameplay, griefing can't. To stop a griefer, you need a votekick or an admin, to stop a ninja you need turrets and a good comm. - Ninjaing wins you the game, griefing doesn't. This is a difference and a team that wins through a ninja is rarely disappointed, even though only one of their team had "fun". You're making it sound like everybody hates to win this way, which is simply not the case. - Ninjaing is a way to win even when your team is about to be defeated. This is good for the morale of the losing team. For example, when you're pushed back to your base on Crossroads, there really is no reason to keep fighting because you're just not going to win by tanks, tactics, teamwork or anything. - Krenzo is on record saying that he didn't like how a game was decided after the first five minutes in Natural Selection, and how he wanted to make Empires gameplay different. I don't know whether Krenzo envisioned ninjas in the way they currently are, but they provide exactly that little "twist", so that a winning team can never be 100% sure of their win. Of course, since the new lead coder wants to change the gameplay to exclude this possibility, the point is moot (pun totally intended).
Don't give me the crap of it's preventable for ninjas. You can prevent griefing with an admin, and we have inbuilt commkicking. And the idea of winning just before you get defeated isn't right, because when you're about to get defeated, you're supposed to lose unless you turn it around, rather than send a sneaky little bitch into the enemy base. And moot isn't lead dev, he's also disappeared, have you noticed that?
Through gameplay. Voteban isn't gameplay and comm kicking is only gameplay on a very broad definition. The idea of losing after five minutes and then keeping te enemy outside of the base for 30 minutes, might be "right" in that definition, but not fun. This requires gameplay elements that enable you to turn it around, and while they exist, there aren't many (otherwise there wouldn't be stalemates in the first place) I said lead coder, not lead dev, which is exactly what he is. So what? First of all, Dizzy supports the exact same gameplay changes and came up with the new direction in cooperation with Mootant, from what I understood. Also, the direction won't pull a 180 suddenly just because one dev is gone. Also, people do come back sometimes.
The last sentence wasn't supposed to be hostile btw, you might have made a mistake. Fucking text. Anyway, I'm all for more ways to turn it around, but ninjaing shouldn't be one unless you can ninja back most of the field, rather than just win outright, because it sucks to get ninjad, and I'm never happy when my team wins by ninja.
Sorry stopped reading as usual, guess why empty ;D If you get ninja'd you fucked up by voting a stupid commander, sorry From experience I know if I don't want to command I really dont give a dam who will as long as they are willing to listen.. if they wont listen; vote them out. If my team loses because of a newer commander then its perfectly fine with me because I didn't step up and suggest my self to command. How often do you see a ninja anyways? Seriously I just posted like a minute ago about the same thing, its rare... very fucking rare
I personally dislike ninja lone wolfers unless they are coordinated by the commander and only a part of a bigger carefully planned strategy, because then they become a team strategy, even though there is an all star player doing the hero action! if someone decides to ninja the enemy base "just because", i generally frown upon them even if they are in my team and thus make us win, ninja's feel like a "tie even" to me... its like surrendering in chess...
A ninja usually sneaks into the enemy base and attempts to kill the enemy commander. A griefer just mucks around and does whatever he can to have 'fun'(spamming 3phase jeeps(wee!), taking a full partyvan and drive it onto an enemy 9 mine(flying, wee!), taking an lt or afv and drive it into your own vf, submarine research). Although my favourite form of fun in empires is sticking enemy infantry with a sticky bomb(can it stick to your own?).
in your definition, a ninja is not excluded from the griefer definition, as is it with empty's opinion ( a griefer can still grief "while" sneaking into the enemy base and attempts to kill the enemy commander) so it seems you guys agree somehow, even if cloud does not know it yet is this not good !
*Thinks for a bit, grumbles* I suppose im not able to tell a ninja and a griefer apart by words, but i still prefer ninjas over griefers. And i'd better stop writing before i get confused.
Griefer = In your team, being an asshole to your team and just causing havoc. Ninja = In your team, but is specifically trying to take down the enemy commander.
... The circumstances are opposite. In ninjaing, you use stealth to damage and kill the enemy command vehicle. In griefing, you use stealth to damage and kill the friendly command vehicle. If you are implying that ninjaing the opponent's CV is griefing the opposing team, that doesn't really make sense. There is a distinct difference. Stop trying to justify griefing or badmouth ninjaing. : p
I must be extremely lucky since all the griefers i've met havent been stealthy, just plain obnoxious.
No you griefed them! Ninjaing is a valid strategy. It's quite easy to prevent it, but you have to be careful a little bit. In my opinion it makes games more interesting, as long as it doesn't happen often in practice (its just fine at the moment). Griefing is doing something against your own team. If you switch teams and drive their comm into the water, you were in their team and made them loose, therefore you griefed them.
