Go com the game. Then tell everyone that there are too many engineers in the game Honestly, have you every played a game as com, lost, and not had people blame the loss on you? You can't say you understand the game until you have a game where a random group of pubbers feel the team failed, and want to play the same teams next game to do better as a team. That's something you haven't experienced I think. If you don't understand something as silly as why buildings are better than APC's anyday.
/sigh... You wouldn't believe how many of us have to tell the team to be engies. To be completely honest, i'd love to play where you're playing Alceister. I haven't been able to explore other classes other than engineer and grenadier since testing for 2.0 finished (almost a year ago now). The only time I was able to be a rifleman with impunity was when I wasn't using my name - for about 3 days. Every single time I play I always have to switch away from my class to become an engineer or grenadier, so much so that I almost never use rifleman or scout. If i'm lucky, I get to be a grenadier rather than an engy through a game. Frankly, i'm tired of it. But it's more annoying to find out that I am among the 98% of the community who play when there are too few engies - or enough engies but no one interested in actually building anything. The thread title is "Engineers are Overused", but if you think about it, engineers are more like the regular soldiers while grenadiers, riflemen and scouts are more specialised. If the title was "Engineers are Overpowered", then I could probably agree with that, and tell you that for a long gorram time the devs and the community have been trying to come up with solutions to reduce engineers power, while still retain an incentive to use them. No one's come up with a good solution so far. So actually, the best solution they came up with was infantry weapon rebalancing. By giving the engineer a less effective weapon, but maintaining all it's other abilities, the engineer has been brought closer to balance - at least a little. If we can actually get the weapons right for 2.2, you'll find engies aren't the powerhouses they have been in 2.12. I believe I said that on the first page of this thread... oh, I would suggest we give the ammo boxes to riflemen, but they'd probably be overpowered that way. Still, could fix engy nade spam...:confused:
Here's an idea: What if ammo boxes required construction (like turrets), and remained where you built them until you destroyed them (using 2.2 remote detonation)? Let them take damage like sensor equipment, too. And naturally you can only have one at a time. This would mean no 'instant ammo'; providing ammo for a squad would require some dedicated work or foresight. Engineers would be less likely to construct their box just so they can nadespam one building.
Well I suppose that is the woe of a tester. On the one hand, you see things before we can. On the other hand, you have to play through it to clean out bugs, rather than playing for fun. But on the pubbies, Engineers generally dominate classic gameplay. You can try to promote team-based gameplay but generally people just go off and do whatever the hell they please. The result? Engineers generally compose the majority of a squad. Maybe a few Scouts with rifles, Grenadiers, and occasionally a Rifleman. I'd prefer it if somehow the team can make all classes have some capability against all targets. Not like how Riflemen have sticky bombs. Nobody likes to be in a situation where somehow they manage to blow their way through enemy lines but find that once they've gotten through, they can do nothing except die. I'd like to be able to have the possibility to take down one building as a Rifleman. Yet stickies by all accounts are too weak to do the job properly. I'm thinking that there are too few classes. By other FPS accounts Engineer is already doing three jobs.
This post is rude to testers in the beginning, and embarrassingly ignorant at the end. Read what people have been posting in response to you the past 80 posts. Engineer may be over powered, but definitely not over used. *edit* I suppose there is a 5th class. It's called commander. Play it, it's fun. it adds a whole new dimension to the game. it's not that we aren't making good arguments against your suggestion, it's that you aren't supporting your suggestion with anything substantial or any issues that actually exist.
I've been reading. And equally, you've been misunderstanding half of my posts as well. I do try to come off friendly, but I suppose its one of those quirks of personality. Okay so I misunderstand about testers, but personally I've never met one in game, and since there are like what, 5 servers active most of the time? I usually only play on Nachos since Rapefest is full of idiots, and have yet to notice any testers. I have yet to see any "well-balanced" squads. Most people do whatever the hell they like. People still play Scouts for the Ranged Rifle. What? What the hell is the difference between Blow or Push? They both accomplish the same ends. Words aside, I might have to admit some error on this point, since I've never really bothered getting ammo upgrade for HE Grenades, but I've never really seen stickies do any serious damage to buildings, even with the full monty. Then they are supporting three jobs, and one of them they generally don't do, or the other two requiring insistent beckoning. Either way I think it's better if they're split up. Yeah. I've played it. Twice. Once with about 8 people total as a dry run, and another time with about 20 people total. The first time I had people hold my hand through it. The second time people were remarkably unresponsive to any com orders. This could be due to incompetence or inexperience, but I've been in a number of games where people effectively tell (or actually tell) the comm to fuck off.
Eh. They'd still do it, but they'd at least do it less, I think. Especially since this system would encourage engineers to sometimes build a box in one key location and leave it there, rather than moving it constantly; they might be reluctant to obliterate it if they do that. Or they might decide that running back to the old box is better than spending time and tool power to move it. It would at least add incentives to alternate strategies.
Empires has 4 classes and not more because its not fun to be helpless in 90% percent of the situations all time AND you cant get people to fill up all needed positions equaly. Rifleman is a very powerfull class in the right hand so theres no need to change its role in any way.
maybe i missunderstood this, but "testers" are no esoteric entities that only sit there and try to find bugs. they actually are players and they play for fun. thats explains a lot to me. not that i want to diss nachos players, but i had to command 3 maps today (screw the clantag) and it was even more chaotic gameplay than on napalms. people once actually refused to buy my neat little DU APCs ... :eek: i had the same experience the few times i been there :mad: [offtopic] seriously i miss napalm's funhouse [/offtopic]
The philosophy is that playing the game normally should uncover all the relevant bugs you would experience when playing normally. This is, evidently, deeply flawed. Though, it hardly matters. Mod teams never manage to fix all the bugs that they do know about! Learning about more of them would just add bugs to the neverending list.
Well, I dunno...there are a few bugs with 2.12, but on the whole we got 90% of them. There are many more map exploits tbh... And really, some of the stuff these guys do shouldn't be considered "normal play" at all. Most of the time it's not normal at all, rather more like an "exploit-finding excursion"...(and usually seeing how much they can pwn the rest of the testers with an exploit while it's still there :p ) Team play dude...you shouldn't be bustin' through on your own. I know I can say that, but regularly vets need to do it on publics...still it shouldn't be a main scenario. We don't go around wearing badges you know...I can't believe you haven't met any testers since they're pretty much the backbone of the community. You probably have met some, but don't recognise that you have. Ammo upgrade for explosive grenades gives about 12 grenades or so...it's enough to suppress enemies pouring out of an enemy rax as well as destroying it. That happens some times. Usually when they don't have confidence in the commander...or the comm doesn't really know what they're doing. Even if the comm does, if he doesn't give good feedback he will be castigated. Most of the best comms are risky comms too, and even if they win a lot, they'll get called idiots when they lose - because they've taken risks. If you're that kind of comm, you'll have to live with it...if you're a more careful commander, then it helps if you tell your team what you're gonna do and listen to the (non-spam) feedback.
Another thing I just noticed. Engineer is the only class that doesn't really need any of the skills to compensate for weakness, and so they don't really need to join a squad. All the bonus skills do is just make an aspect of him stronger. Grenadiers need Ammo because they only carry so many rockets, and it takes so many rockets to reliably take down a vehicle, and Scouts need Hide to get close and do some damage. Riflemen need Accuracy, or Ammo, depending on what they get. The main starter skills for Engineer; Repair Upgrade and Turret Upgrade, aren't awfully useful.
Rifleman needs Accuracy for Heavy Machine Gun, and Ammo Upgrade for Stickies. Grenadier needs Ammo Upgrade if he wishes to have any hope of actually going into the field and being useful.
Firstoff all those upgrades boost the abilitys of that classes, the same as they do for the engineer. And seriously, I played enough games in which I leaded the scoreboard as grenadier with only the speed upgrade and nothing else cause I often forget to choose my 3 other skills.
No. Without Accuracy, Heavy Machine Gun goes all over. More likely than not, you will not be able to perfectly place two bombs on a vehicle And generally with Grenadier, you go Tank hunting with the Rocket Launcher. You might be able to nail an APC, but that would generally be in the safety of your own base.
Its so awesome that you explain me/the rest of the forum how the game is been played. Even, if the majority of the posts, shows you that people disagree with you. Firstoff the fucking HMG is one little part of the rifleman. Second the HMG is, compared to the other rifles, useless in almost any situation. Third, you dont need a fucking accuracy upgrade for the other guns. That comment only shows AGAIN that you have no plan at all how empires is played or has to be played to win a game. But I guess you will ignore that like all the other posts in all those threads that try to tell you what a little cluess arogant child you are.
I think he's a troll, but no one gets it. Join Date: 11-05-2008 Posts Total Posts: 242 (14.09 posts per day)
And your post again shows exactly how much of a condescending little bastard you are. You too Metal Smith. So what if I have 242 posts. I always try to contribute something useful. I do use search to check if anything has been already brought up, although sometimes the wording I use is a bit different than most peoples. HMG can be useful, though admittedly on the infantry-focused maps, where you only need to stare down a narrow space normally. Plus more than anything it exemplifies Rifleman's primary role: to mow down enemy infantry. And if isn't useful to you, well that's one more thing to fix, and one more thing wrong with the Rifleman. Everything should be useful or conditionally useful. No idea at all how Empires is played or has to be played to win a game. Then tell me, how does one play this game. Rather than assuming that I'm a stupid little noob who won't bother to learn, rather than flamethrowering all over any topic I set up, tell me. If I'm a troll, then you're both flamers.
