Empires (2?) Map Contest

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by duke, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    And the game can handle this? I have no idea (atm) how far i can take it. Hell i haven't even figured out how to not draw areas that are out of sight.

    I will however give this a try for sure ^^

    UE4 does have some strange options. "use complex as simple" is as logical to me as asking my boss to "use engineer pay grade as shop employee pay grade".
     
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  3. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    From what I remember it's not ideal to use that on everything, or at least if you intend to have tons of complicated models in an area. I do know it was possible for it to generate a collision model of a basic shape and simply align it though. You can even change the shape of the collision to fit better, but I do remember it not working quite right and I would start floating a meter away from the model, even though I wasn't touching the collision model. That happened when I got angles a little too steep I think, and this was also like 2 years ago. So it might be better now anyway.
     
  4. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    I'm looking into how to avoid this option and have infantry and projectiles use the complex collision, while vehicles use the simplified one. For now just use that option though.
     
  5. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    I'd keep my options open, some mappers might want to use models that tanks can drive over or close to.
     
  6. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    So, size ... how big will the vf, rax etc be, how much flat buildable space would be required at base locations to be able to build everything easily?
     
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  7. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    That's why I'm getting back to you in March. I haven't worked that out yet.
     
  8. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    So i've been working on a single material the entire week (had no idea what i was doing) but the result is much better than i had hoped, at least when you consider i'm no artist. It's a material in which i combined my two most precious rock textures i once created for empiresmod.

    However then i remembered something. The source images for those base textures are from CGTextures.com which as far as i remember allows for use in games as long as you add a textfile mentioning the fact that some of the textures were made from images from their site. I added that file to my first official empires map upload many, many years ago and never thought of it again. But now that Empires will become a standalone, paid game i'm not sure if things like this are still possible or even wanted?

    Material images:
    Rock_material_4.jpg Rock_material_3.jpg Rock_material_2.jpg Rock_material_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  9. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    So, I have to say this because I thought about it and it's kind of bugging me.

    The mappers who are doing this contest are giving you maps, for your game, that could make you millions of dollars and the mappers who make these maps are only going to get $200? I can understand doing it as a passion project where there's no deadline and it not being part of the base game. But now you are wanting maps as part of the base game and only offering a very small and meager reward. If you want a map to be good, you will literally put hundreds of hours into the development of it, and if that's the case the work amounts to what, $1 an hour? Even less? I might as well go work in a factory in china.

    I honestly wouldn't mind making maps to go in the base game if it was like current Empires development, free on all fronts and simply a passion project. However, you're now charging for the game which makes people less likely to contribute and only giving $200 for a map when that map could be played by hundreds of thousands and make you a shit ton of money? I'm struggling to understand this because it's now gone beyond passion, which I totally get and understand, and it's now just dollar signs. It's very much cheating any map maker that gets a map to be in the base game. In fact, it's highway robbery to give $200 when so much work will go into it and it will be played by so many while you profit so much by every sale of the game that includes said map.

    Forgive me if I misunderstood this contest, but it seems you want to hold a contest for maps that qualify to go into the base game otherwise you wouldn't be having this in the first place. And what happens if multiple maps meet the specifications and are of great quality? Only one gets a reward?

    Edit: I don't want to sound like a cheapskate and say "Oh this reward is bullshit!" so I apologize if I come off this way. I understand at no time in the past has anyone been paid for a map in Empires by development. I'm simply trying to say that $200 for 200+ hours of work on a map, for your game, for you to profit off of, is a wee bit shady and kind of undercutting the work all the mappers will put in considering they are giving you the means to use the tools you have created. This new line of "Charging money to play" and "Contribute your work for free" is now something that has to be discussed...

    Edit 2: This doesn't even account for the time to learn the new engine, get materials for it, make materials, make models etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  10. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    Well in my case it's just to have something to do. I have actually no real interest in the contest as the new game will be on a much higher level than i can contribute for. Also i have zero commitment. Depening on real life a map that's 99% done could be suddenly forsaken without even thinking about it. However i might still be able to create decent custom maps at some point, and i'm sure i'll be running into problems or questions that have a place in this topic for others.

    To those who take the contest serious, ... well you know what's there to win or lose before you start. Those that don't think it's enough will find other projects. Also it's probably about supply and demand (is that an english term as wel?). Mappers are much easier to get compared to professional modellers or programmers.
     
  11. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I know, I get this and this is the same boat I'm in.

    It just seems like the $200 reward to me is a buyout for your map to be used in the base game or first couple renditions. I have no problem with making community content at all, in fact I'd rather do that, but having a competition and saying he needs more maps is where the turn off for me kind of happens. Why should I try to make a map and dedicate a good chunk of time for use to sell the game in the early stages? Seems slightly unfair if that is what it would be used for, which I know is accusatory but that's why I'm kind of asking a question.

    Edit: I'll still make maps for community content, but not for base game. I just want to know where this competition falls on that spectrum of "Is this still community content or is the $200 to let it be used in base game"
     
  12. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    This is going a bit off the topic but I have to interject and cry foul at this remark. Your maps (and Chris' king/atomic) are the gold standard in terms of level quality in Empires, yet you consistently downplay your skills. Take some pride in them, dammit!
     
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  13. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    Second that. Even your "shit map" was fun to play.
     
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  14. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    First iteration sounds rather alpha to me, like it'll be released possibly for free just so it can be properly alpha tested. I don't think duke expects the most amazing things here, mostly just because it's a new engine for most people here and mappers don't have a ton of resources to work with(though you can actually get quite a bit from epic's demos and free packs). 200$ sounds fine when he's currently making nothing from it and probably won't be for quite awhile.

    That said I have a lot of interest in this, mostly so I can really learn ue4. I have tons of ideas of things I want to work on for myself, but I think making a map for duke's empires would be an easier start then jumping right into the deep end. I tend to drown and never return to my projects because of that. So I'm not particularly invested in the prize money, more just the chance to try hard at something and learn.
     
  15. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    I'm using stuff from cgtextures (now textures.com) as well so this is no problem.
     
  16. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    You're raising an issue on the wrong side of release. Up until I release the game I don't have any money coming in so I can only pay out of my own pocket. In any case it's not a guarantee of income. If I were to make 1000 sales, i'd still have to keep my full time job and the money would be used to get further work done for the aircraft and navy aspects of the game. I'm not expecting the best of all maps here, i'm hoping for something akin to what Wake Island was for the BF1942 demo. If nothing comes of it i'll make something myself but I figured some people were making maps here anyway and might enjoy trying out UE4.
     
  17. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    Added "youtube clause" to original post.
     
  18. bunnyhopper

    bunnyhopper Member

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    How is this the wrong side of release ?
    Remember 1st impressions of a game are the most important. It is what will make or break a game.
    A lot of independent developers have the same issue as you. To avoid the up front overhead they offer a portion of future profits based off the quality of work.
    Normally with the intention of the artist to continue contributing to the project. If you want to solo develop why not just code a procedural map generator ?
    That way you don't have to be bothered with paying people off or sharing credit..
     
  19. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    Because procedural maps stink.
     
  20. bunnyhopper

    bunnyhopper Member

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    Procedural maps can be decent..Just takes a ridiculous amount of time to work out all the variables.

    Also would like to apologize. Haven't slept much lately and re-reading my comment it kind of comes off kind of dickish.
    I kind of also noticed the part about what your expecting.. In that case I think $200 is a bit much. How about just some free copies of the game ?
    When I first seen your contest I was thinking commercial grade maps. As in spending 40+ hours a week to get them done in time for the deadline.

    Also what is your estimated release price for the game ?
    And have you thought about doing a 4 pack bundle ? That way we could share with friends.

    For anyone wanting learn UE4 this guy has some of the best tutorials I have found. Learned a lot from his videos.
    He walks you through step by step.
    youtube.com/channel/UCz-eYJAUgSE-mqzKtit7m9g

    Figured I would share. As it will teach people how the engine works and how to use blueprints.
    Once you learn the basics UE4 is a hell of a lot easier to work with then source. Also most things are drag and drop in get them into the engine.


    @Silk
    https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Content/Types/StaticMeshes/HowTo/SettingCollision/
     

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