Empires (2?) Map Contest

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by duke, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    Firstly, it's not called Empires 2, it's Empires the game vs. Empires the mod. But I just said that to avoid confusion.

    Anyhow, I plan on releasing the first iteration with a single map, and for that i'll hold a contest. It will be judged based on visual quality and playability. The contest itself will be held around March 2018, when i'll supply you with an SDK of sorts which will allow you to place the commanders, resource points, barracks etc. with a month to complete it, but I thought i'd post this as a heads up so you can start playing around with UE4 now if you wish.

    The rules so far are:
    - The map size should be between 2km and 8km in size (2x2, 8x8, etc.).
    - It should be a classic commander map, not infantry only or mini games or other novelty.

    The winner will get $200bux.

    A further 4 people will get $50 each (judged on the same criteria) who have posted some form of "making of" on Youtube. The winner will get an additional $50 if they've done the same. The quality of the youtube video will be taken into consideration when picking winners.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  2. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    If your not making core engine changes I suppose we could actually start right now on landscape, models, what not and just import it to whatever ue4 engine version your at right? For all that delicious empires game play.

    Well 6 months could have some big changes, but I don't think too many things would break along the way.
     
  3. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I'll have at it. Soviet made me download the editor a few weeks back, but I gave up on it because it wasn't Hammer. The initial unfamiliarity was a bit too much, although I have faith in my learning ability.
     
  4. .Oktay.

    .Oktay. Member

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    i would like to make a new map for the new empire but where can i downloud all the stuff i need for it ?
     
  5. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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  6. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    Yeah there's no reason why you can't start now and just use placeholders for resource points and stuff.
     
  7. .Oktay.

    .Oktay. Member

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    I can already tell the unreal map editor is way easyier to understand and you dont need to compile a map to test it

    i dont know if i want to finish my map i am just to exhausted if i see the hammer editor it brings me back memories from suffering and pain like a ww2 flash back
     
  8. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Post-Hammermatic Stress Disorder, it's OK you'll live. It gets easier the more you know because you have to overhaul less and less stuff with each "technological" breakthrough. To be fair, I still haven't touched one of my maps after I learned about light_spot entities :rolleyes:
     
  9. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Something extra nice with ue4 is you can launch multiple clients when you start the map from the editor, which would probably make a lot of fun multiplayer elements way easier to test. Though of course, it's rather taxing on your computer.

    Also blueprints, BLUEPRINTS!!!
     
  10. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    With winter coming there's a decent chance i'll take a look it at, but nothing serious though. I'm trying to spend as little time behind my pc as possible. Currently this isn't working quite well, but the second i get a life i'm out of here ^_^ Untill then who knows ... i'd like mapping on ue4 IF i had some experience, however i can't stress enough my hatred towards learning new things. Even if everyone sais it's simple.

    I do really like this contest though, and i'm Very Much looking forward to the results.

    Btw ... airplanes ... how to design maps for them? How fast/strong will they be? How high do they fly? Normal planes or VTOL ? Unlimited fuel or will they need places to dock? Repair?

    Since you're using real measurements, will a playermodel be roughly 1 meter 75 ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  11. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    So, I can picture aircraft being particularly useful on more open maps, but I want to make a sprawling nuked out city.

    Can you make it so mappers can enable/disable certain vehicles so that way players aren't making jets to fly through narrow skyscraper passes? I feel like that would get old real quick to see death after death by your own teams incompetence. I could make it so there are some suburbs, but again, the central city part would be hell to fly a jet through. Helicopters yea, jets... prolly not.
     
  12. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    I can't speak for Duke but from what I've read of the design document aircrafts won't be in the first version of the game, so you shouldn't have to worry about aircraft.
    Anyway I anticipate that these maps will eventually serve more of a trial and error purpose because until we've played "Empires 2.0" and know exactly how it plays out it's hard to know what works and what doesn't.
    If you're going for a city map Trump, you should try and find out if it is possible to make a destructible environnement that can be broken in realistic ways. This is one of the things we're lacking in Empires is the ability to make a fully destructible environnement (like they have in some of Battlefield 4's maps). Solid indestructible covers are the mapper's biggest enemy.
     
  13. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I've had this map planned out for a while, so believe me that I will have destructible shit. I wanted to do that with a map called Imperium, but its simply not possible on source because I'd run up the entity limit immensely. Thus I had to drop that.

    The plan is a city that is already nuked that has nukes going off in the background, IE the countryside/suburbs. Haven't decided on the cities name yet (suggestions? its gotta be a big city), but the goal is to have abandoned "patrol vehicles" scattered throughout that can be captured by the first people that get to them. So, BE vehicles on the NF side and NF vehicles on the BE side so it's hard to reach them, but if you do you get early vehicles. They can be destroyed, of course, but it's just a nice little incentive early game. Story will be the squads got wiped out and their nuclear proof vehicles were left behind. Nothing major on these vehicles though.

    Was also planning lots of already destroyed buildings + more destroyable buildings. I love destruction. I experimented with it in Source and how it's done in source wouldn't give me what I wanted unless I wanted to make a model myself. Hopefully this is much easier, and from the tinkering I've done it seems to be. I also plan for this map to end at the two hour mark if it goes that long. Storyline will be BE is invading the city, a nuke has already been dropped and wiped out the forces inside the city and if your task force doesn't take the city within two hours they drop another nuke and game is over because fuck extremely long games.

    Weather will also be a thing. If a "nuke" appears close in the out of bounds zone, there might be a haze or some winds that kick up as well. I plan on going all out on this so I hope it'll turn out great.

    I have some basic concept and a basic layout for this already done on paper so hopefully I can transition this into an actual map. That is if life doesn't get in the way, of which it is currently. Hopefully over my winter break I can crank this out.



    I also might try to bring over the idea I had for Imperium to Empires the Game instead of the mod since I think its more likely possible and will allow for the scale of map I would need. This one would be more balanced but I'm not sure it'd be more fun than fighting in a nuked out destroyable city.... But which to choose for making in a competition...



    @duke Will you also want infantry maps? Those are fairly easy to crank out in a shortish time. Will there be a separate competition for those? I know some people don't like them, but they are great for seeding/low pop times. I know you're not hoping for that, but they are just good to have. Sometimes a good TDM is fun.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
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  14. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    I'm not looking for infantry maps for the moment, and don't worry about aircraft as they won't be in this first version of the game.
     
  15. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    Will tanks still be able to drive off cliffs, fall 20 meters and be unharmed? Or will they now crash on impact?
    Let's say i have a raised plateau tanks shouldn't be able to get on or off from the sides. Would the cliff itself prevent this or would i need to add boulders on the edge?
     
  16. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Just as a side note, crash damage exists in Empires, but you have to try hard to put a dent in a heavier tank. You lose over a plate when speeding like crazy and crashing into something, which you can shrug off in most cases.
     
  17. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    Good question. All vehicles will be pretty hardy because it's a game, so i'd add boulders or make a trap below so that the vehicle would fall and stick upright so it can't get out.
     
  18. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    So i tried UE4, but i'm already at the point i stopped many years ago: collisions
    Source displacements don't allow good looking terrain, but at least the collisions are the exact shape as the visual terrain.
    But using models for terrain ... htf do you do this correctly? You can make good looking scenes for video's or something as they don't require correct collisions, but for use in games ... ? A single detailed cliff model with decent collisions is impossible to make, let alone fill a map with them. And if you make very simple models so that accurate collisions are possible, those models barely have more detail than i achieved with displacements in source. I can't stand collisions that are 2 meters apart from the actual model. I want to be able to hide behind outcrops of the cliffs or crawl on top of rocks without suddenly starting to float higher and higher above the ground as i move closer to my target i want to approach unseen.

    Duke gave me some excellent looking rocks, but while they're bloody good looking, i don't see a way to use them in playable areas

    This is the hight amount of collision detail ue4 can generate, which is already very much not ideal i'm guessing:
    collision_problems_3.jpg

    And this leads to the next situation where i'm actually touching the collisions, 2 meters from the actuall cliff:
    collision_problems.jpg

    I'm a perfectionist, i can't stand this, really i can't. Wouldn't be able to play it either. When i see a tank coming for me and decide to take cover behind a rock, only to hit an invisible wall and die because of it ... no thank you. How do modern games do this?
     
  19. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Yeah I'm with you there, that's a deal breaker.
     
  20. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    We need the Static Mesh Improvement Mod (SMIM) from Skyrim. Everything needs to get SMIMED. Maps like dust storm shouldn't need many models for terrain.
     

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