emp_cyclopean

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by halbalbador, May 25, 2006.

  1. halbalbador

    halbalbador Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    UPDATE - 11/21/06 : The map is near finished. All errors have been fixed including commander view and a few last minute additions have been addded.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]







    I have been working very hard for the past few weeks on a map for Empires. It's called emp_cyclopean, and takes place around a very foggy, very large and very brightly-lit lake.

    The map is essentially a huge crater with mountains around it. In the upper left hand corner there is a strategic plateau. Leading up to it, on the north and east sides of the level respectively, are two other strategic structures; A sewage levy/dam of sorts on one side and a mountainous warpath on the other. Both teams are suited with main bases that feature climbable walls in order to reduce wall-lag. In addition, there are roads leading out of the bases which connect in the lower right hand corner of the map.

    The real gem of the map is the city in the lower right hand corner. The city is surrounded by water and is only accessable via infantry, while tanks are limited to driving over bridges to get in. Inside the city are buildings ranging in height and size. Many of the buildings are interactive, meaning that the player can go inside of or on top of them. Also, the wide open and flat city streets mean strategic land for base building.

    I think the map is pretty much finished. I just wanted to post a little bit of information about it here on the forums to maybe get a little bit of last minute feedback before I submit the final product to Krenzo to see if it can be thrown at the Empires testers, or, if it could even be part of the next patch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2006
  2. Gunnery Seargent Hartman

    Gunnery Seargent Hartman Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, the screenshots except the overview make it hard to judge the map.

    I think there are only two routs vehicles can use to get to the enemy base.

    The Default HL2 Sand and Grass Texture is annoying. I started to hate it more than a year ago.

    The Dam doesn't make sense this way.

    Most of the terrain appears to be too uneven to build structures effectivly limiting base building to the starting positions.

    The whole brushwork looks like < 80 brushes (excluding displacements).

    There seems to be an insane amount (12) of Res-Spots for the maps size.

    The water texture doesn't fit.

    The streets don't look good .. the way they are done.

    However.. the screens don't show enough relevant map data to give serious feedback.
     
  3. the_6th_monkey

    the_6th_monkey Member

    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seriously this guy put in some serious effort, try and put in some nice feedback.... all you've done is attempt to slash him to pieces :eek: .
    In my opinion the map looks pretty good and appears like it required a lot more work than most empires maps out there

    I for one think this map does look like a lot of fun to play and offers some varied gameplay compared to most of the maps currently in circulation

    Although as already mentioned the brush work looks like it could require a lot more detailing, (like most empires maps) although at least you've attempted it unlike most empires mappers :)

    I was adding a city in my map so I guess we were on the same wavelength or something so I kinda like that idea :)

    Although mine was going to be in the centre, anyhow I like the ideas in the map and res placement in general although I believe you will have to limit the amount of res that come from them if you arn't to make the players to rich :p

    I also really like they way how you used water as a key area of your map. Really adds a new area of gameplay

    Don't get de-motivated over silly posts like the one above who don't realise how much effort mapping takes.
    I do feel though that this map can be very good with a little more work
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  4. Gunnery Seargent Hartman

    Gunnery Seargent Hartman Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sorry. I pretty much am a Nazi when it comes to maps. :P
    Don't take me too serious!
    And especially don't let my critics demotivate you!

    Well.. my english vocabulary is rather limited so things might appear more harsh than intended.
    I prefer to say things short and direct because of that. (which doesn't mean that i can't go into detail)
    I usually resort to critics rather than praising because the praising doesn't help. Well you Ego maybe ;) .. but praising is rather hard to earn from me.
    And people usually have to push me a bit to "earn" a long post since I'm rather lazy ;)

    But please post either the map directly so we can test it a bit or more screenshots.
    Like from under the bridge, or in the city etc.
    Currently, we can't really say a lot about the maps design .. and about gameplay can't be decided by looks anyways (at least not very good).

    .. I really don't like the smileys on this board .. they look so .. so .. offensive Oo at least :rolleyes: and ;)
    .. gotta turn em off next time.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  5. halbalbador

    halbalbador Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think all criticism is good criticism, and Hartman's criticism wasn't too harsh - it raised some good points.

    Here is the same screenshot edited. The green lines are paths that can be taken by vehicles. The red dots are where the resources are currently at, making the grand total 13. Quite alot, I agree, but the map is anything but small. It's dimensions are 32,000 x 32,000, which is as big as Empires maps can be as far as I know.


    I agree completely, the dam thing doesn't really make sense functionally, but it makes sense for gameplay. It is a blast and runs along with the theme of the map which is elevation change.

    Alot of the terrain is uneven and unbuildable which limits large base building to the corners of the map and the lake in the middle.

    As you can see from the picture above, the map is rather low polygonal, but its simplicity helps the players to build onto it and allows for the addition of further detail without the map completely lagging out. Keep in mind, this map is one wide-open room with absolutely no vis blockers whatsoever.

    The screenshot above shows a different perspective on the map. It is much larger than it appears.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  6. Gunnery Seargent Hartman

    Gunnery Seargent Hartman Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes. That's better.
    And I see I was wrong in some points :)

    The only thing i would say the map badly needs are some better textures.
    But those don't just create themselfes out of thin air ;(
    The water should be clear.

    I like the third Screenshot pretty much .. the cloudy city in the background.
    Looking good.

    I've misjudged the dimensions a bit, too.

    However, you should add a 3D Skybox .. doesn't need to be fancy, just so the map doesn't end abruptly (or does it only look that way?).

    Well, what still remains is the dam having no lake to dam and the streets are a bit too straight (not those inside the city, thats fine) .. hard to do decent streets without overlays.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  7. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

    Messages:
    5,771
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    this map looks very hawt, id have to play it to give you some comments
    Really another map I cant wait to play :)

    A few places seemed a little short on cover, could use some crates, just small things, some holes in the ground aswell (for instance the road above the dam, and the second level hill infront of the dam, Places like that where some less long range infantry battles may occur.

    The other thing is I hope its not too biased towards one team.

    Looks very pro and awesomer too play, cant wait!

    the city looks freakin awesome :D
     
  8. Rick

    Rick Former Linux Developer

    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thumbs up from me.
     
  9. halbalbador

    halbalbador Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks alot guys, keep up the good criticism, praise is good but let me know what you think of the visuals as well.

    The map is definately ready for testing. Unfortunately, as you can probably tell from the screenshots, I don't have map resources set up and am currently using emp_isle. If anyone wants to run a server with this map and get people on it, I can get 3 people to join if you give me an ip. I would love to test the map to figure out more gameplay mechanics.

    I noticed that the pyramid wasnt really noticable in the other screenshots so here is one more...
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  10. mr_quackums

    mr_quackums Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    a simple thing to make the dam make sense would be to have dirty water flow from those pipes into the dam, and clean water flow out and call it a water treatment plant.
     
  11. Broccoli

    Broccoli Member

    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Looks really nice. Just a few suggestions.

    Do you have a skybox? The map looks like it stops quite abruptly in some places.
    Have you run RAD at all? This looks like it's on fullbright, and whether intentional or not; it's not a good look.
    The fog on the lake looks a little fruity. Huge clouds, and then nothing. Try maybe turning up the number of sprites, and reducing their size? Sprites are quite cheap to render so long as you are conservative.

    Other than that, looks nice.
     
  12. halbalbador

    halbalbador Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, the map does end quite abruptly and it does NOT have a 3D skybox. If I decide to add one, it will be very simple because I don't want to waste resources.

    Yes, RAD was ran, and the lightmaps are currently set at 128. The map is as bright as it is to simply allow the lake fog and the ambient fog and the skybox to all blend together more easily.

    As to the lake clouds/fog, you probably think they look bad from the top-down view, but don't worry - when I take the final screenie for the map resources im going to delete those brushes so you can see the water.

    Keep up the good work guys - this thread is like one big long list of things I need to do to improve the map.

    This map is ready for testing. I just need some people to help me out with that.
     
  13. x3x3non

    x3x3non Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You know i like your map very much. You seem to have put serious thought in it. I like the fact that some areas are infantry only.

    Though recently i have seen that people are putting an IMMENSE amount of fog into their maps. I can't judge it properly from the screenshots, but i hope its not too bad. Too much view limitation really ruins it for me (COUGH DISTRICT).

    I also hope its not too bright. I'll try it out when u release it though!
     
  14. Jimather

    Jimather Member

    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    you dont need to dam a lake to have a dam. well indirectly anyway.

    if you have a large quantity of water running down through a mountain from a large water supply high up in the mountains, you can dam it at the bottom where it emerges from the rock and generate electricity. the water is then contained by the rock it was running through and the actual lake may only exist underground.

    If you took out the two pipes above the dam and made sure there was some high terrain in the skybox behind it, the dam would make sense.

    or keep the pipes in and run a drainage channel into the lake from them. these are then the overflow pipes. but they wouldnt just piss out all over the dam the water would be directed into the lake somehow.

    on a different note I think a skybox is absolutely essential for this map, make sure you have some buildings which continue the built up area and high terrain above the dam if you dont put a lake behind it. If you do put a lake behind it you could have the lake as part of the skybox and create the impression of a very large body of water without compromising too many resources.

    all in all im looking forward to playing this map.
     
  15. halbalbador

    halbalbador Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wow Jim, a lot of good things there.

    With the more and more people suggesting a 3D skybox I think it's pretty much essential.

    Keep up the good comments guys, the criticism is great and im taking it all into consideration.

    If anyone is interested in playing around on the map by themselves, I will be more than happy to link to a .zip of the map or something.

    Thanks alot guys!
     
  16. Grizzly

    Grizzly BEAR SIZED DOORS

    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thats pretty cool :D

    try fiddling with a env_sun to give the map a more natural lightning, and you might really be having somthing there
     
  17. Aurora

    Aurora Radiating love, empathy and maternal instincts

    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It looks pretty neat, but I think it's way too bright, and I also quote Hartman for some of his points...
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  18. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

    Messages:
    5,771
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  19. halbalbador

    halbalbador Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey everyone, I have the map zipped up but my webhosting service wont let me upload a file larger than 1 MB. That sucks eh?

    If anyone would be willing to host or knows of a host that I can get with that will let me upload this, that would be great.

    In the meantime, I think I might add a 3D skybox, a sun, and kill some of the light and return with some new screenshots for you guys.
     
  20. Jimather

    Jimather Member

    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

Share This Page