Discussion point: Infantry Weapon Overhaul

I think you quoted the wrong reply.
I agree that you should NOT win in 1v5 scenarios, although I used to eat a whole MEG squad for breakfast.

 

Cleaned this thread up somewhat. I don't think we've ever gone off-topic so badly to end up in Warhammer 40K table top discussions.

I like this.

Ah yes, that was a great experiment. Forcing players to focus fire on a single enemy to take them down was kinda hard when you had no way of identifying which enemy to focus fire on. Players turned into bullet sponges, requiring 1-2 full clips with the SMG2 to take them down. Wasn't very fun in hindsight.

 

wasn't the BEAR burst at some point also don't you dare touch that weapon is my favourite, and please don't touch the mortar

 

do-doushio...

Melee upgrade I understand just fix the fucking range on it, head-shots should be rewarded, direct mortars are kinda hard to pull off, shot pistol should have some big drop off instead of it being able to suppress people, nukes are not fun but they are endgame weapons you should be in a tank at that point, running people over also should be a reward, mines people either need to open their eyes or fucking get defusal.

The melee upgrade is the one I hate the most because you have no chance of dealing with it you just need to hope you don't get spawn killed and get out.

 

I think if you have upgraded health you should also be able to take more than a punch. I mean, it means you're tough, right? Mayaswell lower melee upgrade to around 100, and have it at like 70 if you're punching someone also good in a fight.

What is it without the upgrade btw? 30?

 

Didn't it used to be that way? Where upgraded melee couldn't ohk upgraded health?

 

I'm pretty sure it did, yeah. Which is why I spawned with upgraded health, but no joy :/

Maybe some flavour text for the melee skill too to say just how real powerful it is. Because I sure as hell know some new people will be like...wtf was that? Heck, even as experienced as I am I get pretty pissed with a facepunch, let alone if I had to deal with it multiple times without knowing the deal.

 

Backstabs aren't that hard, I don't even know how they fucked it up so bad in TF2, I coded a knife in gmod that backstabs and in like 10 hours of online gameplay I've facestabbed 1 person.

 

Try to distance yourself from Empires meta for a moment and think how ridiculous it is that the class with the anti-vehicle weapons is the prime class to turn invisible and sneakily rush at enemy infantry.

Yeah.

That's how new players feel. That's why our pubs are slowly emptying again. We got a ton of oldfags to temporarily come back to see Candlespires, but they aren't going to stay and the steady stream of new players aren't sticking around either.

I'm sorry to go off topic for a moment, but that's the first thing I thought when I read Lazybum's short & blunt (but accurate) comment.

 

They don't care for what we have to say no matter how much we complain, or make legitimate points.

They will learn in time, but it will be too late when it happens.
Candles is the burning love we can hope for, lets hope the blimps pay attention.

 

Squad powers, 9-mines, shotty pistol are all the same examples of bad design that balances overpowered features by making them not easily discoverable to new players. Empires has too many hidden rules and a way to high skill-ceiling, but that's exactly what the handful of remaining nerds love.

 

To be honest, the thing that annoyed me most was the dicking over of losing teams by placing mines in the raxes and running through them punching people in the face. Literally of dozens of people went down, most multiple times - including me, and we were really just on our way out of the rax to combat the growing number of tanks and infantry attacking it.

It sucked. It felt directly like exploiting. I thought it was completely ass-holery, because it felt like it was the vets doing the punching, too. I don't really feel newbies would pull that off very well. So it was just like people who knew how to play the game wanted to make it crap for everyone else and make those players go away.

 

I am more and more getting the idea that it might be better to rebuild Empires on Unreal 4, just to get some more people interested...

 

Let me add some new suggestions to derail things a bit away from this anger.

If we removed melee upgrade and upped melee damage to 70 (meaning two hits and everyone's down), would people be heartily opposed to that?

Is it possible to get (enemy) mines to do 50 damage inside raxes? I understand that there would need to be some contextual coding, but I don't know that removing mines from raxes altogether need be done. I know mines in raxes blah blah bad overall, but still, if we got a little more space in the rax and made mines more of a hazard than an instakill, I think it would be more fun.

Anyway, additionally i've been thinking more about advanced skills. Firstly, would we be able to have skills cost points instead of being awarded solely on a rank-up? I expect the answer is no, so I'll move to the next question; would we be able to have specific (advanced) skills available to infantry only at higher ranks?

I haven't got a long list here, but buffs such as 20% resistance to explosive weapons would be a boon in keeping late-game infantry competitive against tanks.

Additionally, infantry are lacking in the whole armour and ballistics thing. There are a number of skills and upgrades that could potentially be tapped if we look at combat the right way. For instance we could have a 'newbie' upgrade that increased body-shot damage by 10%, a 'dead centre' upgrade that increased headshot damage, a "disrupter" upgrade that would cause bullet weapons and grenades to do 10% of their damage to vehicles (I still see LOADS of people shooting vehicles with small arms). We could have a plain "armour" upgrade that decreased incoming fire by 10%, a "hard-headed" upgrade that would decrease headshot damage..

A whole host of things could be done. If you want to talk CS and other games, why don't we talk about more than spread pattern and recoil? Let's invest in Empires lore, all those genetic enhancements and nano technological advancements are going to waste.

 

I agree with Ikalx here. Infantry needs to be more viable against tanks.

 

Been saying that for like 4 years now just saying.

 

And it's still bullshit.