Budget armor, RIP or a new life?

Discussion in 'Under Consideration' started by Sgt.Security, Feb 21, 2016.

?

Budget armour?

Poll closed Mar 13, 2016.
  1. Budget begone!

    71.4%
  2. Nooo keep it

    28.6%
  1. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    In short, there's no point in having two armors that are both weak and cheap.
    Absorbant and Budget both have 60 hp, Plain armor has 40 hp, they are close enough.

    Although Absorbant has 2 advantages over Budget/Plain armor.
    1: Absorbant does not take any bio DOT.
    2: Absorbant cools your engine when you are taking damage.

    Basically, if we can't come up with a new type of armor for budget armor to fit in, I'll remove budget armor and drop Absorbant's cost to 4, AKA the same value as Budget armor.

    If there's no problem, we will probably implement this in our next hotfix.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    My vote would be to ditch it except its the only armor offered outside of plain in glycencity.
     
  3. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    The current cost of absorbant is 12. You want to make it 3 times as cheap? Sounds rather drastic.
     
  4. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    Ok, how does this make sense. And when did regen start taking full bio damage?
     
  5. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    even if you made it cost 0 and weight 0 I wouldn't research it.
     
  6. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    You make budget a passive research, meaning when you research upgraded chassis or something in mechanical you get budget. It's not much better at all then plain, but it will help out newer commanders a bit, by at least giving a team something when their commander forgets to get better armor first.

    Also I am shocked I never notice abs not taking bio damage. I know spartacus messed with the modifier when he made armors extremely dependent on their modifiers and lower hp, but thought it was reverted.
     
  7. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    And then I'd get noobs using budget instead of composite when I want to play seriously, no thanks.

    That's because it wasn't until last update.
     
  8. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Keep in mind that armor cost is only a part of the vehicle cost.
    This change won't make absorbant vehicles ridiculously cheap. Absorbant AFV will still cost 300 or so, medium would cost around 600.

    I probably won't change that for now, because Absorbant is rarely researched anyway.
    Regen used to take 2x bio damage, now it takes only 1x damage.

    That's interesting, should I instead transform Budget armor to Absorbant armor to avoid that issue?
     
  9. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    I would just leave budget as is, it's only ever used on glycencity, which is a good place for it to stay. No one will ever spend time researching it, but don't kill abs by turning it into budget.
     
  10. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    I guess I haven't been clear enough, researching absorbant or budget means your tank will die twice as fast as reflective/compo, making it cost less is not going to help, it's the chassis that's expensive, not the armors. And saving 200res on a heavy to have it die instantly is NOT worth it.

    Until absorbant and budget get a boost in HP or something to make them take less damage, they are USELESS.
    Until you change how tank's cost work (change chassis and armor prices) cheap armors are pointless.
     
  11. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    As I said for quite a few times, I will decrease chassis cost and make all armors more expensive, except for Absorbant armor.
    But that's a relatively big work and will most likely require some testing.
    I'll start with cutting the cost of Absorbant.

    I didn't make that clear, obviously I wouldn't nerf Absorbant. I mean changing Budget armor's name.
    But I am not sure if that's gonna work.

    So I guess I'll just remove budget armor.
    It's not really a problem for plain armor to be the only armor for glycencity.
     
  12. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Again, if we want Budget armor to stay, we'll have to come up with a new and unique type of armor.
    We don't need two weak&cheap armors.

    What type of armor is missing?
     
  13. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    good question, since people don't really want to use rock/paper/scissors there's not much room for different types of armor. However if you're going to change costs of chassis and armor (like return composite to 50) I do believe budget could be interesting, if it gives you heavy tanks worth half (or 2/3) of normal prices.
     
  14. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm gonna kinda disagree on this, assuming the new player even hits the customize button they should be reading enough of the stats to see that compo simply has more hp, thus better. Other stats probably aren't considered as much to a new player.

    You are also wrong about abs taking no bio damage since last update, its been there since 2.64 when candles was handling scripts for a short period. I think when candles was removing all the resists on abs when spartacus was handling them he thought that the modifier for bio meant it was full resisting bio damage because that's how it works for all the other resists, but that's not the case for the bio damage modifier. Really just an oversight, and like how vehicle mgs for a few months were completely broken due to only hitting whatever side of the tank was facing the center of the map it wasn't caught sooner because no one ever gets it.

    I still think budget replacing plain as you progress in the research tree is a nice idea, but if you want it to be unique it's honestly rather hard here considering the modifiers being used. If the damage modifier could be made subtractive instead of multiplicative I would say change reactive to use that damage modifier and kinda actually resemble it's description, with budget taking reactive's place as a high hp armor. Reactive really is great on lights due to how few plates you can put on them, so it'd give budget a purpose as an early game armor that reactive once held.

    Also, why didn't you say that abs also resists cannons by like 25-35% or whatever it is, along with a small resist to missiles? Effectively abs does have 75 hp or something, but anti tank mgs go through them like butter along with compo and reflect simply having a much higher effective hp.
     
  15. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Yeah I guess I misread the scripts on that bio thingy, going through it again, you're right.
     
  16. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    Wait, wasnt absorbant strong against projectiles like rails, and weak against rpgs? is my thinking a left over from like 2.2?
    I put budget armor in glycen because plain is waaaaay too weak for a enjoyable game of that map. if you're removing it, change the researched armor to absorbant in the map cfg (it will kinda ruin it because i thought they're weak against rpgs).

    i believe budget replacing plain armor once upgraded chassis is research is at least an idea worth discussing (for example, it eases the pain of having a bad com)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  17. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Abs has never been weak against rpgs, it's just rpgs are slow, or maybe because it's an infantry weapon it's speed is irrelevant to the speed to damage modifier?, but any case it's not an inherent weakness, it just doesn't reduce damage from rpgs as well as cannons or even missiles I think.
     
  18. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    Based off of its SpdtoDmgMod of -0.00011 and Velocity of 1500, its damage modification would be .835 * 130(rpg damage)=108.55. So, with Abs Health at 60, that is still almost 2 full plates with one rpg.
     
  19. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    Now to compare a cannon shell like ranged, we would take same (SpdtoDmg(-.00011)*3600(range spd))+1=.604
    Now take that and multiply by damage of ranged, so we get .604 * 60 = 36.24 damage, or a little more than half of one plate.
    Now it does have an explosion force of 100, so not sure how much extra this adds to the damage calc.
     
  20. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    Now, taken one step further, say we applied an InfantryMissileResist of .5 to this, we would get .5 * 108.55 = 54.275, reducing the damage down to almost 1 full plate, and only affecting rpg's.
     

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