2.5 Test #5 - PLAYTEST - Sunday 23rd March - 19:00 GMT, 15:00 EDT, 12:00 pm PDT

101010 · Mar 21, 2014

WTF...... So test on the 23rd and a pug on the 22nd......
Why not just combine them. Most people normally need to re-install or update for pugs anyway. Chances are by combining we could have full servers for testing / pug ?

ImSpartacus · Mar 21, 2014

101010 said: ↑

WTF...... So test on the 23rd and a pug on the 22nd......
Why not just combine them. Most people normally need to re-install or update for pugs anyway. Chances are by combining we could have full servers for testing / pug ?
Click to expand...

That's not a bad point.

Hopefully it will be a good play test and cundahls will see fit to release it.

Lazybum · Mar 21, 2014

101010 said: ↑

WTF...... So test on the 23rd and a pug on the 22nd......
Why not just combine them. Most people normally need to re-install or update for pugs anyway. Chances are by combining we could have full servers for testing / pug ?
Click to expand...

Most of the people who come to pugs most likely have empires installed. I mean in a sense this sounds like it could work, but it could just turn off a bunch people when they suddenly have to download 1.3 gigs of data. I know for a fact that half of pug goers start the game up the minute the event pop ups, probably never opening it before hand. Besides it is 2 days away, there is no time to tell people that they would need to update it.

Besides I think there was a couple of things candles wanted to fix before it went live.

101010 · Mar 21, 2014

Took me about 3 mins to download Empires beta.
I know last pug most people that waited to the last min to start Empires was unable to get it to load. Beta starts as is without having to mess with anything.

It will also be ruff playing 2007 after seeing how great 2013 is.

Also are the servers going to still is download servers or workshop for maps ?

Workshop would a lot easier as the servers could have all maps in rotation set as a collection and be downloaded all at once.

Candles · Mar 21, 2014

All of that ignores that some people might be near bandwidth caps, not everyone has a connection that can download 1.3GB in 3 minutes (That's over 40Mb/s mind you, some of us get less than a tenth of that), that there are a few bugs remaining, that it would mean I don't have Saturday to spend compiling maps, fixing more bugs and organizing the release, and that we might run into gamebreaking bugs the ruin the whole thing.

So there are numerous reasons that we wouldn't want to use a pug as a playtest. If people don't show up to test, (this actually comes more from others than from me,) then it's on their heads if new bugs pop up that weren't caught in testing due to a lack of players.

Beerdude26 · Mar 21, 2014

ViroMan said: ↑

huh... attempting to close the news window in the main menu gives an error.

#cef_error_header302
#cef_badurl
Click to expand...

Yeah CEF is Chrome Embedded Framework, which is what Valve uses for its built-in HTML display in Source 2013. We did a very quick search-and-replace to put it in, I'm surprised it even works :p

HaschteWas · Mar 21, 2014

Why is steam not able to have beta and default empires installed at the same time?
I dont like downloading stuff which was already downloaded, just because i want to switch from beta to default.
Big Minus Point compared to SVN empires from my side,
because this is definatly manageable.
Of course only if you dont have monkeys managing the software...

Candles · Mar 21, 2014

That's not something we have power over. You can still use the SVN branch though if you copy the contents of "hl2bin" to "bin", open a command prompt in the empires directory and type "hl2.exe -game . ". I might make it automated at some later point so people only would have to run a batch file, but most people shouldn't be using SVN from here on out anyway.

The 1.3GB download is pretty much just going to be a one time thing. Unless we add ridiculous amounts of content in another patch in the future, most switches should be at most ~50MB.

HaschteWas · Mar 21, 2014

I just noticed that the research radar doesn't display enemy buildings and infantry on minimap.
I thought it would at least show enemy structures on minimap but nope.
I wouldnt mind to display enemy infantry either, but there may be different opinions...

Candles · Mar 22, 2014

I fixed the skybox issues on Crossroads and Escort using a hex editor because I didn't feel like learning all the things I'd have to learn just to compile the map right.

Candles · Mar 22, 2014

Lazybum said: ↑

The always pointing north thing happens for a second after you spawn a new vehicle. Just tapping the the w key will cause the minimap to update correctly.

The spawning backwards thing is weird. It only happens to jeeps. Furthermore, I bothered to test this twice, when I played the test server on nf the player view would stay the exact same position when I spawn the jeep. BE would rotate 180 degrees, from any position I create the jeep at. When I tried it on a listen server I made, be would rotate about 135 degrees to the left and nf would rotate 45 to the right. Again, only jeeps were affected. It would affect it when I built them with the debug_vehicle_build too. In any cases it never snapped your view to the front of the jeep when you spawned it, like what happens with anything else.

A personal thing I noted was that maps with a good amount of sand(isle, duststorm, palmbay) look kinda bad with hdr on full. The bright ass sand just burns the eyes. I make the note because it happens in the 2007 edition. Some other maps(crossroads, bush) just have their colors kinda washed out, or rather have a odd neon green/yellow look to them if hdr is full.

On canyon, the texture for that crater by the c3 ref is really out of place. It looks kinda bad. That is unrelated to hdr though.

I noticed on slaughtered that with full hdr those little warning signs by that shore in e1-e2 area are missing the yellow/black warning symbol. That is a very minor thing though.

Edit: Oh before I forget, I noticed duststorm has that strong wind sound, like your in an actual duststorm. I mention it becauase I don't remember 2007 edition having that. Could be I am just noticing all these small things without hearing a bunch of explosions while I investigate everymap.
Click to expand...

The most interesting thing about telling people to do some fierce bug hunting is that they find bugs that've been there the whole time. Building vehicles with debug_build_vehicles always has had them point wrong, and the player's view has never snapped to the front of the jeep when spawning a vehicle. Even the issue with Slaughtered and HDR and the thing with the direction on the minimap have been around for a very long time. People just never noticed or never cared.

flasche · Mar 22, 2014

HaschteWas said: ↑

I just noticed that the research radar doesn't display enemy buildings and infantry on minimap.
I thought it would at least show enemy structures on minimap but nope.
I wouldnt mind to display enemy infantry either, but there may be different opinions...
Click to expand...

uhm thats no bug thats a feature? building spotting it was removed in some 2.2 version if im not completely mistaken, sadly the wiki-changelog doesnt tell anything about it.

also in 1.04 or smthg cameras unhid scouts slowly - why did that get removed? thats the best solution so far - if a hidden scout crawls into cam range he doesnt get uncloaked instantly but turns more visible the longer he stays inside the area ...

Lazybum · Mar 22, 2014

Candles said: ↑

The most interesting thing about telling people to do some fierce bug hunting is that they find bugs that've been there the whole time. Building vehicles with debug_build_vehicles always has had them point wrong, and the player's view has never snapped to the front of the jeep when spawning a vehicle. Even the issue with Slaughtered and HDR and the thing with the direction on the minimap have been around for a very long time. People just never noticed or never cared.
Click to expand...

You are probably right, I never look at a minimap when spawning a vehicle because I know where I am when spawning it and where I want to go, I don't really need the minimap to help tell me. I haven't had hdr on for like the last year or something because of how I couldn't see anything on bootybay. I wouldn't know about the debug vehicle thing because I never used til like a week ago in this port.

Not so sure about the jeep though, I don't think it goes directly in the direction the vehicle spawns, but I swear it goes at least to the front. Might be just another empires thing that I just took as part of the game, like you said.

ViroMan · Mar 22, 2014

ok... how about when I hop in the com vehicle... the vehicle dissapears from the mini map. I can't tell where the F I am till I hop out of it since my arrow jumps to b2 and locks there.

Candles · Mar 22, 2014

Verify it, try to reproduce in the current default branch and tell me what you did if you can get it to happen. I'm hopping into the comm vehicle and having no problems at all.

ViroMan · Mar 22, 2014

fffff..... ok. gime a min.

ViroMan · Mar 22, 2014

.... it is still doing it. Steps:

Run Empires Beta 2013 edition.

Create your own server... Duh? (I use chain since it has everything to test vehicles with)

exec testing

get in CV and watch it vanish from mini map while my arrow gets teleported and locked facing north to b2 until I get out of CV.

edit: ohh you said current default branch... but I don't wana... I would have to download crap again.

edit: console

emp_nf_commander at (11248.000, 12640.000, -992.000) has no model name!
emp_imp_commander at (-10351.800, -11944.000, -1112.000) has no model name!

ImSpartacus · Mar 22, 2014

Candles said: ↑

I fixed the skybox issues on Crossroads and Escort using a hex editor because I didn't feel like learning all the things I'd have to learn just to compile the map right.
Click to expand...

Fuck it, we'll do it live.

Candles: Hex editors are God's gift to programmers who don't want to learn how to fix things the normal way. And they also saved Crossroads and Escort.
ImSpartacus: Yeah, elaborate.
ImSpartacus: I saw your post on that.
ImSpartacus: I know hex editors let you edit the "output" code, but I'm not sure why that helps you in this case.
Candles: So the problem with Escort and Crossroads was that it needed a skybox with an hdr texture.
ImSpartacus: Roger.
Candles: They're using the textures "sky_day_01", or something like that.
Candles: In Source 2007, that'd work fine or something.
Candles: Or I think what would happen is that it would fallback to a non-hdr texture if it didn't have the HDR texture.
ImSpartacus: That makes enough sense.
Candles: Anyway, the point is that something is different in Source 2013 and it didn't work anymore.
Candles: It was looking for an HDR skybox, but the texture didn't support an HDR skybox
Candles: So I looked at the Source 2007 files and found just "sky_day_01" with different numbers and with the suffixes "rt, lt, ft, up, bk, dn", shit like that.
Candles: Because it stores each individual wall of the skybox as a texture and uses a single .vmt file to reference it as a skybox.
ImSpartacus: Are there five "walls" to a skybox?
Candles: Then I looked in the Source 2013 files and saw the same shit, but then I saw copies of all the files like "sky_day_01_hdr"
ImSpartacus: Six?
Candles: Six
Candles: Up, down, left, right, front, back.
Candles: Yeah. Interesting thought I have is that the reason Hammer makes sense to me and not to other people is because it was made by programmers. So it's minimalistic and hard to do things with, just like I'd expect from something designed by a programmer. And being a programmer myself, it makes perfect sense.
ImSpartacus: LOL
Candles: While not-programmers can't wrap their head around why it is the way it is. So not-programmers, which generally includes mappers, have a harder times with it.
Candles: ANYWAY
Candles: So this was all earlier this week.
Candles: So I went into hammer, added "_hdr" to the name of the skybox texture, and recompiled.
ImSpartacus: Kewl.
Candles: So I look in the mapping forum, and find a thread on compiling maps for Empires.
Candles: Tells me to use "-both -final -StaticPropPolys -StaticPropVertexLighting" or something like that.
Candles: Turns out you want all that for shit to look niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
ImSpartacus: Are those compiling options?
Candles: Yeah
Candles: For lighting
Candles: So I put those in and let it compile.
Candles: An hour later, it's done.
Candles: While I'm doing this, I ask Silk about if I'm doing it right.
Candles: He says that the -StaticPropPolys -StaticPropVertexLighting and a third one, -TextureShadows, should all be used individually and tested.
Candles: So I look into this TextureShadows one and it's needed for a map to have proper lightning with transparent shit, like chain-link fences.
Candles: I look further into it, and it says I need some "lights.rad" file.
Candles: I look further into that, and I don't like what I see.
Candles: So I think to myself, I'll deal with it later.
Candles: Load up crossroads, look around, the middle refs are missing models.
Candles: Open the vmf back up, it's using some model called res_node_star.
Candles: It says it's in models/props, but I can't find it in any of the Source VPKs and I can't find it in the Empires models folder.
ImSpartacus: So the ref doesn't show up when you drop it?
ImSpartacus: Or the node is missing?
Candles: Naw, the nodes.
ImSpartacus: Mkay.
Candles: They're just an error model.
Candles: So then I remember that Pakrat exists and I look into that.
Candles: See if I can find some tool to do a reverse of it and pull out any packed models.
Candles: Oh wait, I forgot something
Candles: Before I did this stuff with the model, I also looked into building cubemaps.
Candles: Saw that I had to build cubemaps twice for each map, which took a good 5-10 minutes per.
Candles: And even then I wasn't certain if I was doing it properly.
Candles: So I thnik to myself, I'll deal with cubemaps later.
Candles: Anyway, back to the model.
Candles: So find a tool, put the .bsp in, out pops a folder with all the shit in it.
Candles: Look inside it, I find the res_node_star files.
Candles: So that's cool, but I don't know what to do with them because there's like five of them with different extensions.
Candles: SO i think to myself, I'll deal with the res node later.
Candles: Then going back up the file structure, I see one called "soundscapes".
Candles: So I look in there, find some reference to a script file.
Candles: Then I pop open the dev wiki, and look up Soundscapes.
Candles: Sure enough, there's some script file that I'd have to deal with.
Candles: But I wasn't certain if I'd be able to do it properly.
Candles: So I think to myself, I'll deal with the soundscape later.
Candles: Except there's one problem.
Candles: Later became *now*.
Candles: So I now have to deal with that lights.rad file, testing compile options, building cubemaps right, putting the soundscape script file in the right place, that res node, and then I also remember shit about detail props that also require a script file.
ImSpartacus: O_o
Candles: At this point, I go, "Wow, I ain't never giving a mapper any shit for anything no more."
Candles: So then, I go, "I wonder how the skybox texture is stored."
ImSpartacus: dat hex editor...
Candles: So I look up about editing .bsp files directly.
Candles: There's literally like one thing, and it doesn't tell me anything I don't know already.
Candles: Mainly, don't fuck with the offsets. Don't fuck with the size. Don't fuck with the braces.
Candles: So, I'm like, "FUCK IT ILL DO IT LIVE!"
Candles: Then I pop this open https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_BSP_File_Format
Candles: One of the longest pages on the developer wiki, it details every aspect of the BSP file format.
Candles: And I'm like, "Bro, I got this. Fuck mapping, I'm a programmer."
Candles: So then, I open Notepad++
Candles: I open crossroads and a copy of it in seperate windows.
Candles: The reason I have to do this is so I can look at the original and be certain I haven't changed the position of the start and end of the part of the file that holds entity data.
Candles: Then I find the first entity, worldspawn, which is the map properties.
Candles: Find the skybox texture name, add _hdr to the end of it.
Candles: Then I have to deal with the hard part of hex editing.
Candles: I just shifted every single offset by 4 bytes by adding that.
Candles: So somewhere between the part I added and the end of the entity data, I need to pull out 4 bytes.
Candles: There's a lot of empty shit before the entity data, but I can't delete it because finding the part where the byte offset is actually set in the header file is even more of a bitch.
Candles: So I go to the end of the entity data and find a bunch of 00's.
Candles: I delete 4 of them and reload the map.
Candles: Map loads!
ImSpartacus: O_o
Candles: Everything is beautiful!
Candles: But there's one problem, it's a small red error bitching about the lack of a carriage return.
Candles: Unexpected EOF and shit
Candles: Knowing that adding new errors is bad, especially after hex editing a file, I try and figure out a new way.
Candles: I see if I can just modify the byte offset but it's hard to find.
Candles: I try doing it without modifying the byte offset and it bitches at me because it starts reading the entity data 4 characters into it.
Candles: That's when I did a shift by deleted 4 of the empty character, by the way.
Candles: When I just put _hdr into the name and pushed the rest of the file 4 bytes ahead, the thing would crash to desktop when I tried loading the map.
Candles: So then I go, "What the fuck am I supposed to do?"
Candles: The proper solution is to remove useless data.
ImSpartacus: Wait, I thought you did that.
ImSpartacus: Or tried.
Candles: I tried, but that shit was less useless than I thought.
ImSpartacus: Ok, so it's hard to tell what is and isn't useless.
Candles: Removing shit at the end cause carriage return errors, and If I removed shit further on, then it'd just crash.
Candles: Removing shit earlier fucked with the byte offset.
Candles: So I have to remove useless data within the entity data itself.
Candles: So what can I remove?
Candles: THE MAP COMMENTS AND VERSION NUMBER!~
Candles: Fun thing to note: It's *a lot* easier to remove data from a hex file than to add data.
Candles: If you add data, you have to find other data to remove.
Candles: If you remove data though, then you can just throw your own empty data in there.
Candles: Anyway, Crossroads has a map comment, so I delete exactly the last 4 characters from it.
Candles: Escort doesn't have any comments, but it has a version number.
Candles: A version number that is exactly 4 characters long.
Candles: So I first grab a fresh copy of the map to make sure I do it *right* and I don't have any leftover errors.
Candles: Then I add "_hdr" to the end of the texture name.
Candles: Then I remove the version number from Escort and the last 4 characters of Crossroad's comment.
Candles: Save it, load up Empires, load up the maps.
Candles: No errors, full HDR. Everything is beautiful.
Candles: And that's my story.
Click to expand...

yay for documentation!

MomoZMonster · Mar 22, 2014

soo I just downloaded empires fresh, itwont load, still getting the .vdx error

MomoZMonster · Mar 22, 2014

okok so update, I downloaded the beta, that works, but the server is not using the updated version?? help!!

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2.5 Test #5 - PLAYTEST - Sunday 23rd March - 19:00 GMT, 15:00 EDT, 12:00 pm PDT

101010 Member

ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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2.5 Test #5 - PLAYTEST - Sunday 23rd March - 19:00 GMT, 15:00 EDT, 12:00 pm PDT

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ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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