Should engineers be given invincibility too... oh noes someone capped me when I was an engie the horror the horror... if scouts are anything more than a nuisance your fighting on his terms and not on your terms... we might aswell just ditch riflemen and grenadiers aswell since we dont need them since engineers can do everything already... Now if people would be afraid of the LMG as much as they are afraid of the scouts rifle Empires would be near perfect...
Id like to see the scout rifle be more of defensive weapon, it has the SMGs for short range operation but as a longer range weapon Id liek to see something like the M1 carbine in day of defeat. If there are going to be sniper rifles they belong to the rifleman class IMO as its this class job to take out infantry.
I think to take the scout rifle out would be a bit criminal to this mod. They are a pretty useless class for anything but harrasing engineers or camping a barracks and picking off people lol. what with the turret models absorbing bullets, the hitboxs being about 10x smaller than the models, You see a head you fire 20 bullets but there no box to hit.... just a face staring back. It bloody hard work to get kills when you really need them + the deviation of the bullet. Its a luck rifle Smart people dont play scout after a few minutes into the game, there anti eng roll is useless. All the cool Dudes play grenadier, but when mortering u are pretty open to that scout shot ( or 20) I still think they are fun to play on escort and that new map. THen again when u have lvl 3 turrets as an eng, it makes the scout seem pretty useless dosnt it...
The scout rifle is really fine the way it is and balanced compared to other wepaons to be honest. The main beef with it is that people fret over a single shot kill at close range. The fact is though, while this sounds powerful, the actual strength of the weapon is in many cases worse than the others. If you run into enough close range encounters, you find that almost all the automatic weapons are nearly an instant kill. The assault rifles (especially brenodi), heavy rifles, and even the smgs will kill almost instantly at about the same range and in some weapons longer range than the scout rifle. So, what's the difference between the main difference in this situation? For one, the other weapons make more reports (loud bangs) than a scout rifle. The other difference is that if the scout misses, he has to wait a long time to make another shot comparative to the automatic spray available from other weapons. I believe that a lot of the complaints just range from people thinking "Oh my gosh, one shot one kill!?" without considering the speed and effectiveness of killing. The psychology of one bullet has more effect than the actual killing speed. If you compare a skilled user of any of the weapons and their speed of killing versus the scout, you will find that the two are really very balanced and any scout who can't make his shot count is truly disadvantaged. I have played quite a bit with different classes and against all the classes and have noticed that when I come up against others, especially the riflemen as a scout, I often drop in what seems like an instant one shot kill. They may have spammed bullets at me but the speed and effect was the same. Why should the scout be the only one stuck with a weapon that fires ineffectively for one shot and then gets gunned down before he can fire another? This is especially a poor idea considering that he must venture into enemy territory alone oftentimes while the other members of the team are encouraged to pair up. Krenzo was correct for not removing the scout rifle and for patching it up to what it currently is. If you ignore the psychological factor of the one-shot one-report kill over the spam of bullets and look at the effect in game, you will tend to find that at the one-shot kill range of a scout, all the weapons perform roughly as well, each with their own unique idiosyncracies. The scout has what he has because it is necessary to survive in a bad situation. Edit: Also, considering hitbox and lag issues that currently are in place, the slow shooting of the scout is somewaht weak over the spam of the other weapons that can make up for any lag by sheer volume of shots assuming they miss. If you want to look at another psychological perspective, consider this. The scout has to wait the long period of 1.5 to cycle from one potential kill shot to the next while the other classes cycle almost instantly to the next potential kill. It's best to analyze actual performance in game though and the ability of the players who are wielding the weapons as well.
i agree with palehorse tottaly but i must say just to make thing fair and make ppl use more rifle man rifle man should have a sniper too probably exactly the same or a diferent one depend on the dev for sure but if both class have the ability to kill at the same range its will change lots of thing i would love to see the heavy armor Rifleman trying to shoot the cloaking scout would be a nice battle to see *if you take into consideration both are 40 skill point or over with nice build* i think thats is the solution sniper for both scout and rifleman and well this game lack night map too i think
Most of you act like someone with a sniper rifle is invincible. If you dont know how to kill a sniper go waste your money on world of warcraft.
To be honest, the thing isn't a sniper rifle at all. A sniper rifle would mean it was very effective at long ranges. Typically you have to keep shooting a person at that range to have any effect. When asked why some people think it's a sniper rifle, it is because of the one-shot kill at close range. That is not sniping but cqb and as game play shows, it is roughly equivalent to all the other weapons. The only gun that may qualify more as a sniper rifle would be the brenodi assault rifle due to its range.
The one shot kill range should be shortened. So caled 'close range' is usually farther than you would think for what the scout rifle should be. There really is no long range killing, but in medium rifle ranges, the scout has the advantage, if you know what I mean.
How about this: get rid of the scope and make them use the binoculars for long range aiming, and reduce the damage to 2 shot kill AT LEAST.
I've never had the Scout Rifles kill in a single hit except once, on a headshot, and one other time at very short range. I was sniping some BE engineers who were building up turrets. Suffice to say, it's not that awesome. Although it could just have been that, somehow, the turrets were blocking my shots (which I find unlikely, since I managed to shoot through the open gap beneath a NF refinery once)
The damage should not be reduced for the reasons above. The last thing we need is a weapon that fails where others kill nearly instantly and then has a long cycle time to the next possible kill where others cycle in a fraction of a second. The effective range of your typical rifleman is much further and the engineers have a similar range. As for the scope, I don't think any removal or modification is necessary as it is a very weak scope comparative to most games and at extended range, you have to empty sometimes a clip and a little extra to even have a chance of taking someone down. That's assuming they're perfectly still as well.
A single shot from the scout rifle is a gaurenteed kill, you simply have to be close. I've gotten countless such kills.
Just get rid of the long range completely. That way people won't call it a sniper rifle, and scouts can't harass people from a long way away.
This is the only suggestion I'll say that will give the Scout a weakness. Make the Grenadir's RPG stronger vs. Scouts. If a Scout is dug in, blow him out of his hole with a direct fire rocket. Sniping is something needed in a battle. If there wasn't a Sniping Scout or the fear of one, Then Rifleman would dominate over all. Other than Rifleman vs. Rifleman, even armour can have a hard fight against one because of their Jack-of-all-Killing grenades, there is no way to kill one without luck and some good skill. And Obviously, the BE team has a much better Assault Rifle, so there is a definite imbalence there.
That's kindof the point of the rifleman though... he's supposed to be the ultimate anti-infantry class. Mess with the grenades if you want to, but that argument doesn't justify snipers.
As was said, that's the point. The Rifleman is supposed to kill you. If you want to kill a Rifleman, play one, or get in a vehicle. You have to realize that there is no other reason to play a Rifleman. Without anti-infantry supremacy, the class is totally, absolutely, completely pointless.
Im starting to consider that maby we should just get rid of the riflemen. After all, with the large spaces we have in most maps, the snipers are much more usefull for taking out people than riflemen. :mad: :mad: How about we shorten the ranged rifle's range to just the one kill zone. That way the scout can defend himself without the posibility of picking off people at longe range. Shorteneing the scout's one kill range would also help. Whats wrong with snipery scouts? They are better than riflemen at longe range and almost equal in close range.
The sniper rifle is supposed to be powerful at long ranges and completely dominate a person with an assault rifle at that range. If you cant seem to get that balanced out, all you have to do is these things, make the rifle deal low damage at short range, make it horrible innaccurate while moving, and while in close range only kill with headshots, and chest shots at long range. Of these I think they already have most of them. As it goes for Riflemen, riflemen are the run and gun guys, the people who like to waste ammo, and be the cannon fodder, not a super anti-infantry massacre unit. Sure they should be able to take on an engineer, an anti tank, or a scout at close range, although not as capable at these tasks as Ide like, their still able to do it, but if some scout 500 yards away is shooting at them with his sniper rifle the scout wins, your fighting him on his terms, just because you have a bigger gun dosent mean you can kill anyone at ANY range. The only way I can see that the sniper rifle is a bad idea is if its owning at all ranges, including short, then it needs some tweaking. Since im personally a rifleman guy, and not a scout person, I dont know, I havent used the sniper at close range, and wouldnt know its capabilities. I personally havent had any problems with sniper rifles except when I step out in the open, and start running in a straight line. As for the rifleman not being strong enough its simple, RETURN THE RIFLEMANS RIFLES TO 1.00 STATS... back to where a rifleman could clearly destroy any other infantry at medium to short range.
Try going sniper in district. The turrent engies die very easily,and if you run into an alley with enemies, you can take one, two, three, and its an empty alley. It is acually quite fun, for you at least.
