What maps should be stock?

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by Deadpool, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Luck means someone has an advantage and someone a disadvantage.

    Random does not imply that luck is involved.

    It's possible that random events yield no advantage, they simply require both teams to use different strategies.

    I think more strategy is a good thing. On the unlikely chance that fair, random events are added to some stock maps, the number of applicable strategies would increase.
     
  2. Empty

    Empty Member

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    So you don't want vets to have the possiblity of having an epic match on king or atomic because that single map might confuse new players.
    You'd rather appease the noobs and leave the vets with the stael maps for eternity.
     
  3. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    If they yield no advantage to either side they have no effect on the game, everything that affects the gameplay has to ultimately advantage or disadvantage one side or the other.

    It is impossible to have random events which do not favour one side or the other, as you cannot know the positioning and dispositions of both sides at any given point. A change which is neutral assuming both sides expand along an assumed path would favour one or the other if they expanded along a different path.
     
  4. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I want to use the fact that we want to put maps like King and Atomic in, as a means to force us to implement better stuff for new players. Problem is, you just don't play at the moment, and you have no idea how utterly intolerable it's gotten. It's just fucking shit. You are honestly lucky if 10% of your team listens to you, it's the worst I've ever seen it. And I played King with a good team the other day, and it was amazing. I also played it with a terrible one, and it made me want to hang myself. We HAVE to do more.
     
  5. Empty

    Empty Member

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    I'm pretty sure the reason I don't play is the reason 90% of the vets don't play.
    Laggy/nonexistant servers.
    Noobs continually voting in god awful maps.

    Fix those problems and who gives a fuck about the retards who don't listen.
     
  6. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Make babies with me.

    Kill the casual crowd, and you kill the game.

    I don't enjoy playing district either, but it's a necessary evil.

    The event itself shouldn't provide the advantage, but the resulting strategy change should.

    That's actually the entire point of any multiplayer game ever created. Provide a level playing field and see who wins.

    So you're saying it is impossible to have something be different and not favor one side or the other?

    Exhibit A:
    • The NF jeep holds twice as many players as the BE jeep.
      The BE AFV features 50% more armor than the NF LT.

    Since the teams have different equipment, one team must have an advantage. Ergo, Empires gameplay is inherently broken.

    So either your initial premise is wrong or Empires (and all asymmetric gameplay) is completely broken.
     
  7. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    No servers are playing district anymore, the only server people go on is EPIC, and usually there is an attempt by Viper to fill their server, which causes both servers to fail immediately, leaving only like 6 players on any random server at 10pm EST.
    That is what is in need of a serious fix.

    GG Empires.
     
  8. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Which you won't be able to do.

    Say you open a new route in an area on the map. you assume that the teams will be equally positioned to take advantage of it when it opens, but what if they expanded differently? What if it connects a heavily defended front for one team into the middle of the other team's territory? That clearly favours one or the other. Unless you plan to make them game even more uniform so that there is never any variation in expansion paths, you're going to start throwing advantages to one side or another.

    1. That isn't a random factor, it's the same every game.

    2. The NF light and NF jeep are better than their BE equivalents, everyone knows this, so yeah asymmetry is kinda dumb if you want balance. Fortunately the balance of the units doesn't massively matter in empires, as you win based on early land grabs and rushes, not unit vs unit. The asymmetry is cosmetic, and doesn't add anything to the game really. What you propose however is introducing potentially game changing asymmetry, which is really dumb.
     
  9. EdWindows

    EdWindows Member

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    Agreed. Without all the vets around to teach the n00bs how to play, it gets extremely frustrating playing the game. I used to quit playing Empires because I got tired, and now I quit because I get so infuriated with the imbecile playerbase.

    THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.
    As a US player, I have extreme lag while playing on EPIC server; ping in 300's.
    By 10PM EST most if not all of the euro players have gone to bed, and yet all the North American players persist to play on EPIC even though everyone on the server has at least 180 ping, which makes it hard to hit them since above 150 ping they are prone to high amounts of lag spike. What baffles me is that the North American players don't say "Oh hey, Viper server is in the US and I'll hardly lag. I'll play over there."

    Also, district really needs to come back into map rotation. It is one of the very few maps that teaches the importance of squad combat and infantry survival.

    tl;dr: n00bs are the worst ever, US people need to play on US servers during US primetime, district is good infantry training map
     
  10. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    The balance of vehicles doesn't matter? Huh?

    You can't be reasoned with.
     
  11. PredatoR[HUN]

    PredatoR[HUN] Member

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    Hahahahahahahaha
    Now you now how most of the euro vets felt when Viper was the most popular.
    I doubt Trickster would mind if you get the Americans off the epic server and into viper during American hours though, unlike the VIPER guys who bans you if you dare suggest it.( you will have to ask him though)
     
  12. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I can't help but think 300 ping is a considerable exaggeration. I think it was you I saw with 300 ping the other night, but that's a problem at your end. East coast can get 80 to 150 on the server, West coast 140 to 200ish. Magnus in Australia only gets 360. The US pings to an EU server are considerably better than the EU pings to a US server usually. Us Europeans were stuck on VIPER for the best part of 3 months, and not once did people move over.

    But no, I have no issues with you moving Americans over when it's late at night, as long as it's no earlier than 11pm UK time, so it's up to you to do the maths. Just make sure an admin knows I said that's ok because it might upset one or two of them. But by all means, feel free to do that.
     
  13. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    again playing with fucking lagg arround 200 ms ping is not bad at all.

    EU players played with 150-200 ping on vipers and did perfectly fine, still top scoring and stuff, the only lagg is hit registration, hit detection should be perfect. You guys just butthurt you suck and seek for excuses.

    Lagg is nothing bros except 300+ then it becomes a bit anoying but still playable.
     
  14. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Biggest issue isn't detection, it's backwards registration, i.e. those times when you jump round the corner into cover, but you get killed because the bullets were flying where you were 0.2s ago.
     
  15. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    That's what I ment with the hit registration its like you get shot, you are behind the cover and then the bullets registrate and you get killed.
     
  16. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    The NF are mechanically better in basically every way, I suppose you can argue that BE can be potentially more powerful with railgun heavies but NF tanks use missiles, which are generally better than cannons in terms of heat-damage ratios as far as I know, as well as being easier to use especially if you pick a homing variant, they also get bio missiles which are a particularly good weapon in some situations, not to mention all their missiles are researchable for mediums and don't need an upgrade for heavies, while railguns are heavy-only and so make max-tier BE tanks harder to get. Missiles also are better against buildings a lot of the time due to their range, you can snipe from across the map with them easily. The NF light remains has better defence than the AFV because it is simply a lot harder to hit, which works better than any armor, it's also faster to drive around because it handles better. The NF jeep is a lot better at sneak attacks than the BE one. They also have a much better RPG and I think the NFAR is better than the BE one in this version.

    Despite all that however the game is not unbalanced, at least not significantly, because like I said, you don't win by pitting unit against unit, you win by getting the right strategic locations and holding them. Better units are meaningless when the enemy has 2 more res nodes than you do. Hence, asymmetry and unit balance are cosmetic in empires. I cannot recall a time where either side was really that unbalanced against the other, even things like superlights were best countered by controlling the res flow, res flow is and always has been the one deciding factor in empires, and as it's identical for both sides, the rest more or less doesn't matter.
     
  17. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    I'm in Ohio (Midwest US) and I get ~100 ping on EPIC main. It's not perfect, but it's definitely playable. I'm a wretched shot, so I probably wouldn't see any latency even if it was there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
  18. communism

    communism poof

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    im 3rd coast and get 180 ping


    fag
     
  19. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    You live in Texas Commie.
     
  20. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    aka 3rd coast
     

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