What maps should be stock?

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by Deadpool, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. Deadpool

    Deadpool SVETLANNNAAAAAA

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    post suggestions here for maps that are finished or very nearly finished to be included in next release, if I can bully trickster into bullying someone else into adding them.

    maps should be very nearly done, or finalized (like moors) so that they can have a sexy name w no _b# bs, and be good enough that they add to, rather than detract from empires gameplay and spirit.*


    I will follow this thread up with a poll when I have some contenders, thanks


    *that means fuck octagons and rainbowroad so dont even suggest them.
     
  2. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    Forest
    Moors
    Palmbay
     
  3. Apex

    Apex Member

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    Eastborough
    Chain
    Bush(without the gimmicky ref points)
    Forest
     
  4. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Maybe.
    Cant remember it.
    No.
    No.

    No.
    Never.
    Maybe.


    Suggestions:
    Shadows RC7.

    Anyone suggesting rainbowroad, octagons or any of harryhoots maps will be instantly banned.
     
  5. OuNin

    OuNin Member

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    kingunderthehill
     
  6. Devourawr

    Devourawr Member

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    emp_hobbes


    But seriously, palmbay seems fine if you can just tweak where building can be placed, as atm it's kinda annoying only have 2 possible places for a VF/rax in your main.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011
  7. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Never got banned so:

    emp_empirescup


    But I'd prefer emp_atomic and emp_king :(
     
  8. PredatoR[HUN]

    PredatoR[HUN] Member

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    Why are you against Forest, Empty?
    It's pretty and has very good gameplay.
     
  9. Empty

    Empty Member

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    I fully endorse atomic and king becoming official.
    Mainly because the maps are way too big in filesize to justify putting them on any rotation. Nobody would download them, also they're fucking beautiful maps.


    Actually you know what, I'm going to have some discusherns with some devs and see if we can get a list of suggested maps to be added. We'll make a list and maybe get some added. They won't really be new, but hey, nobody outside the community will know that. +PR. +Maps. +Players. +Empires.
     
  10. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    smokies with some tweeks
    eastbraaa
    forest
    frozensummit
    is homeland stock?
    manticore
    minigames
    railroad
    research has a good game layout but needs graphicly to be upped.
    Silo
    definitly snowstorm
     
  11. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Atomic needs some work before it's released properly, I still need to fix the lift because it's still very griefable, I should also really add soundscapes at some point.

    Surprised people want them in though, thought everyone hated king.
     
  12. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Research has good gameplay, but it definitely needs tweaking. The versions I have played have made it hard for coms to drop buildings.
     
  13. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    that map we always played in 2.25, glacial or whatever it was called, once it's fixed of course.
     
  14. Dubee

    Dubee Grapehead

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  15. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Me and Beerdude have been discussing this for a while, we want to add more official maps, we just haven't decided on which. I'll give my personal (i.e. not necessarily shared by everyone else on the development team) opinion on the maps.

    King, Atomic & Chain - I love these maps, but they're "too good" to be official. The tutorial map sucks complete and utter dick, it's just no use at all, the current playerbase just has no idea, which is why these maps are difficult. They're complex, they require intense coordination, and 90% of the time it just doesn't happen. If we had a better tutorial, better hints (more like ND/L4D2 rather than what we have atm) then I think it could work, especially with the new minimap drawing, but as it stands, I just don't think they'd work.

    Forest
    - Great map for gameplay, but lookswise, it's like the old style of maps, before Isle, Cyclopean, Canyon and Duststorm were all revamped. It's from the same style as Slaughtered (albeit better looking still). Whilst I actually prefer old canyon (The current one is morbid and depressing), the fact is, it should really conform to the looks of the new ones, so a new texture would go well. I don't think Silo is an option because it's a different map, it's depressing, and it's low FPS, and Omneh wouldn't ever fix it.

    Research
    - Bad gameplay, bad looks. No.

    Moors
    - Just no.

    Frozensummit
    - Also known as ice-duststorm with less vertical fun. No point.

    Manticore - Gameplay is terrible. It's just 1 shit chokepoint and infantry "ninja" routes, it doesn't produce enjoyable games 99% of the time. If the other areas were opened up, infantry able to cross the canal, then it would be much more fun.

    Homeland - Absolutely awesome map. Good looking too. Sadly, rather exploitable, and the original mapper has disappeared, and I don't know if anyone has the VMF. I've also heard of commanders crashing. I would love this map to be official but I just don't see how it's viable unless we get the VMF. Decompiling a map like Homeland is not an option.

    Snowstorm - Had Varbles never made Glacial, then yes. And still yes to be honest, if he fixes the problem with the middle turning into a campfest if you hide the CV in the bunker. But I still prefer Glacial personally. In fact, I love both of them. But I wouldn't want them BOTH to be official, and I know more people like Snowstorm than Glacial.

    Eastborough - The map itself I like, but the win/lose conditions are poor, and it descends into a last spawn which is impossible to take but impossible to push out. It's certainly fixable, so I'd be more than happy to see it replace district if it was. Whether others would is another matter.

    Smokies - Old smokies was better before he clipped off the vast majority of the map. And the new one just seems to play out badly. Most of the combat sits in the area outside NF main near the shack, which makes it hard for NF to move vehicles anywhere else, whilst BE never have any issues retaining their access to the North East, because they have 2 exits from their base for vehicles. NF have more "ninja routes" for infantry but on a map like smokies, that just doesn't cut it. To be honest, I'm not sure if the original smokies stopped it in any way, but I know more of the hills were accessible, which was just a nice feature. But realistically, not a candidate for officialdom, no matter how much I like it.

    Railroad - Apart from always descending into a fight over middle, it's just a flat map with very little going for it that duststorm doesn't already have. It's fun but there's no reason to have 2 maps like duststorm official, so for the same reason as Frozensummit, no.

    Minigames - Fuck off Paradox, stop being so fucking stupid.

    Empirescup - Fuck off Destroyer, don't be like Paradox.

    Palmbay - Yes. Absolutely yes. It's good for small player numbers, it plays out relatively nicely, although I feel it's heavily NF sided due to them generally being able to attack downhill whilst BE attack uphill (I would guesstimate NF win at least 80% of the time), but I've always felt this is because BE teams never exploited their easy access north of their main across the water, which is much further away for NF, and they can't get any large buildings close to it. So maybe with officialdom, it'd get played more, and people would learn it better. Coast had similar issues in earlier versions and they were resolved with experience before the mapper removed them anyway.

    Bush - I like bush, I like the random spawn points, and the random refs are nice, although I wouldn't cry if they were removed. It plays really well. My only ever gripe has been that extra passage in the south west, which does seem to throw things off when one team has their base there, as well as for strategy. But it's a small issue at best, and other official maps have much larger issues, so I'd love this to be official.

    Shadows - Current shadows, fuck no. Old Shadows RC7? Fuck yes. Played well, was pretty balanced, etc. Omneh was supposed to be recompiling it but he decided to be a lazy cunt. I'd love to see it back.


    Plunge - Exact same reason as Forest. Good gameplay, but old style looks. Not to mention the melee bridge issue. The one thing to note about plunge is that if you get stuck in your original main, it's very difficult to push your way out, and the game usually ends quite quickly, which is good in some ways. If you get stopped in the other corners, it's easy to push back out, which is also good. The point being, it's very difficult to stalemate in my experience.



    By all means, throw other maps in there for me to comment on if my opinion seems to have any worth to you.

    Also, I want to throw out there that for all the "oh god district/UC/escort" etc for official maps, they all play out decently for what they are. But I'm not a fan of Arid at the moment, it's really grating on me. The lack of building placement near the middle, as well as how far back the vehicle bridge entrances are, makes it really difficult to do anything except rush between the 4 corners. If it was up to me, I'd reduce this back to custom.
     
  16. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Empirescup suggestion was in no way serious.

    As with the rest, I agree 95% :D
     
  17. Deadpool

    Deadpool SVETLANNNAAAAAA

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    needs more than 10 stocks, also, why do you hate on moors so hard, moors rocks.
     
  18. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I love moors because I can be an asshat and just snipe, or jeep around. It's enormously fun to dick about on. And that's pretty much the problem with it. But it's in no way beyond redemption, I just think it needs some points of interest, some small complex on one of the hills and maybe a bit of lake on another. The concept is good but it's just visually boring. Admittedly I should have added this in my description up above but besides Forest, I wasn't planning on writing larger descriptions for the other maps, I just sort of ended up doing.

    Which reminds me of another map actually

    Raiders - Gameplaywise, really fun, but the lack of 3D skybox replaced with this giant wall makes it feel cramped psychologically, and genuinely has an effect on how people play, with the sides of the map just not getting much attention because people feel like it's all focussed in the diagonal area between the 2 corners. A simple 3D skybox on it replacing that big wall and I think most of the issues would be solved, because people would be encouraged to use more of the map. If that was done, I'd be more than happy for this to be official.

    Anyway, going through your comments:

    Yes, Keef laid good groundwork, but he refused to add aspects that were needed. It was left at "good groundwork", and it's just not enough. It doesn't do the job. Go into any server, and ask new players what they thought of it. I'm yet to find one (and I've asked at least 30 now) who thought it really helped them.

    Forest - No, the issue with textures is an important one, we're trying to modernise the mod a bit, it already looks dated. I'm not being offensive, and I mean this honestly here, but the fact is, your comp is so dated and you have the graphics toned back so far, it wouldn't seem much different to you. But for getting new players, even though people hate on them, including myself, the retexturing of maps like isle and cyclopean did wonders for the overall look of the mod. Maps like Escort and Slaughtered need to follow suit asap. There's a very definite style of the textures used, and one is old, and one is new, and Keef upgraded them to new, and for the most part, they look better. Even canyon looks better, it's just infinitely more depressing and less fun to fight in. But the fact is, I'm not going to pull punches regarding someone's work just because of how friendly I am with them. I can love them or hate them, I'm still going to give my honest opinion on it, even if I do sound like a dick.

    Frozensummit - No, having a similar map is absolutely a reason not to have another one in. Same goes for Snowstorm/Glacial. There's nothing wrong with maps staying custom, but there's everything wrong with needlessly committing ourselves to support maps we don't have to.

    Manticore - I could honestly argue for hours about why I dislike this, but it's not worth it here, certainly not when I'm trying to get to bed and this isn't the place for it. But if anyone particularly wants, I'll wall of text you about why it just doesn't work tomorrow. And as I said earlier, it's certainly not beyond redemption. It just doesn't work currently.

    Glacial/Snowstorm - What I said about frozensummit.

    Shadows: New one is a linear stalemate clusterfuck that no-one enjoys. It rivals Urbanchaos in terms of fun. Urbanchaos isn't fun.

    Plunge - I think you misunderstood me. The ease of losing in one base, or pushing out of the other, is a GOOD thing about this map. It doesn't stalemate much, and that's a fantastic thing. Players don't need to learn it better or anything, it just works. It just needs graphically updating.

    Also, we have more than 10 stocks at the moment afaik.

    Also, another map which I'm quite fond of, which I think most people hate, is Insurrection, but sadly that falls into the same category as Chain/King/Atomic.
     
  19. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    Forest could use different lighting that still is in the same range as the current one. Take eastborough, it was psychologically impossible to play because it was all orange and stuff, but then the new version felt fresh because it had a more pale lighting. imo that is what makes forest seem frustrating to look at.

    We should bring back the map spotlight threads where we discuss what to change on the maps to make them better aesthetically and gameplay wise. It worked wonderfully for Cyclopean, Duststorm, and Canyon.
     
  20. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    esatbro/moors/king are all pro maps that require smart players to be playing or else it ends up being less than satisfactory
    pro squad leaders for eastborough, pro commander for moors, and everyone for king.

    also scout sabotage sucks ass and ruins games
     

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