NPCs don't work by default in multiplayer, the ceiling turrets don't work properly anyway, and their destructability isn't based on whether they are open or closed.
There would be an easy way to kill the mg's, tho it doesn't come with a little risk, run within range, have it pop up, drop a wall between it and you nade it from a distance. It can still see you so it will still lock on (they do this currently) but it can't hit you so it won't fire, allowing you to kill it. ML's? I would assume you could still walk up and decon them with your calc.
Um. here's a small little 'doodle' in Flash (it's animated) of what I think it would work. It WOULD have a small part just sticking out the ground, but the part that actually shoots would remain underground until and enemy is within shooting range. I would say it takes half-damage if you shoot the top (while it's still underground) but take full damage while it's not underground. And it wouldn't kill a person as fast as it does in my little animation :p http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=undergroundturretac2.swf PS: Why have underground turrets when you can get lvl 3 turrets? Sure, they'd look pretty cool but in the end.. what's the point? They do the same thing as every other turret: Shoot the enemy.
A better thing would be the turrets in HL1, they pop in and out of the map geometry with no trouble. Also, they shouldn't take much reduced damage while underground, it's ahrd enough to shoot something that small as it is, and seismic nades and shells damage the ground as well.
Nice flash, and the point of underground turrets is that they wouldn't get destroyed so easily from range. It is annoying to watch how even level 3 turrets are hopeless against one engineer with an ammobox nading them from safe distance or behind a wall. Underground turrets would have better or a lot better protection when they are underground forcing people to cause them pop up so they could destroy them.
Underground turrents and concepts Well I was fairly interested in the idea of these underground turrents so I just threw together some quick concepts (sorry about using paint I have a fairly fresh format and havnt gotten too installing photoshop or anything yet and using something like AutoCAD was just too overkill even for me). A - A turrent where the Doors come strait out of the top hatch opening up too allow the turrent too come out of the ground. This is one of the simplest ways too do it but the fact that the doors are outside the hatch square would by default make the turrent take up twice as much room. A1 - Turrent A2 - Doors/flaps B - A turrent with a four piece door hatch which would fold up from the corners and either stay up as sort of "shields" which would probebly raise the height lvl of the turrent too a significant ammount which I doubt we want. You could also make the flaps come out of the turrent then when the turrent is outside of the groud have the flaps drop too less that 45 degrees(possibly 0 recreating the base around the turrent, this would also be a great way too cover up anything that covers the ground plane a majority of the time) anything between 1-45 degrees though would act kind of as a shield even if it was only for show and served no actual purpose. This concept would be best used for BE turrents IMO just because of the more detailed movements and looks. B1 - Turrent B2 - Doors/flaps B3 - Top of hatch C - A turrent just using 2 flat flaps coving the hatch much like example A but having them fold out too ground lvl or fold back into the ground C1 - Door folding too ground level C2 - Door folding into the ground D - Same thing as C except having 4 triagles as the flaps and having them fold out from each side too either ground level or over into the ground D1 - Door folding too ground level D2 - Door folding into the ground E - E concept could be used on any of these previous examples except B, would be an ideal way too get rid of the flaps by having them flip up and open vertically then having them sink into the ground vertically. E1 - flap going from closed, to open, to down. F - This concept is a decent looking idea without too many movable parts, very similar too concept B. The triangular flaps would fold open too allow the turrent too come out and then fold back up into their first position effectivly closing off the "hole" in the ground. You could also again do something similar too this with just 2 rectangular flaps and just have the gun face the same direction as the crease in the hatch then once gun is out flaps go back down. F1 - Turrent F2 - Doors/flaps F3 - Top of hatch Now in this picture its just showing how alot of Empires buildings work as it is right now. The thing I think would make these turrents particularly useful as underground turrents is the fact that you would be able too drive and run over them while they are down, this could lead too a whole new concept with base defense for instance what do people do too stop vehicles from being built? they drive a tank into the VF, what do you do? drop a underground turrent infront of the VF. Now I realize this could have some overpowered issues with having 1 way streets for your vehicles and not theirs so you could also use this ramping effect on your turrents just just simply take up a significantly larger area like as much as 9 turrents placed in a square or the ground size of an armory, just enough space as too allow a vehicle too drive through 2 side by side ramps together. This would effectivly stop the "wall" of turrents giving the game a 1 way street for 1 side. And would limit the number of these turrents you can put in a small area, for example if you put like 10 of these turrents on one side of the bridge in slaughtered it might be kind of lame, but if theyre bigger and not as versitle as regular turrents would wouldnt have you OP turrent farm that would own anyone crossing the bridge and them not able too do anything about it. Having them take up a larger area could also make the places you can put underground turrents limited, much like you can place regular turrents on ramps and hilly area but not armorys. The 2 most significant things that would make these turrents something worthwhile too put in the game is simply making unsnipe/arty able turrents and turrents that dont inhibit vehicle movement and player movment. The idea of having the closed turrents take up as much dmg as say a wall is pretty good because while you still can kill lines of walls with arty, it isnt a prefered, easy or fast way too do things(well maybe a little bit less than walls I dono, they're pretty beasty). A couple things you could also do for balanceing them would be lvl1 or lvl 2 equivalent(pref lvl 2, def not lvl 3) and just make the research in the same section as lvl 3 turrents, also increase the cost of these turrents by adding 100(150 MG 175 ML) or like doubleing (100 MG 150 ML) depending on how strong and effective the turrents are. Although making the turrents equivalent too lvl 1 would kinda make them next too useless, atleast for MG because the delay time in accuireing targets would be inceased dramatically no matter which lvl turrent you are useing(doors have too open etc) and while this would be a very fast process for how much material is being moved its still going too be significantly longer then even lvl 1 turrents targeting. Well I probebly forgot the other half of the things I was going too say about this i'll just come back later and post again. EDIT: oh ya almost forgot to say why I prefered this method too the HL looking ones. The part where its basically just the top of a mound moving up and allowing a gun too just point out of that plane (the distance the turrent has moved up). just seems like It would leave the turrent very armored still plus it would be weighing a kind of rediculous amount for how thick you would want it too take wall type dmg and how fast the turrents turn and fire and people. It also kind of defeats the purpose we want for this turrent, strong against long range explosive snipeing and normal health when deployed. Plus its not nearly as showy. EDIT: found a pic of some C&C ML turrents underground, something like that would work too.
I like it, an upgrade that makes the turret strong against rocketsniping and whatnot, while leaving it vulnerable to fire when its attacking. Though, there should be a lengthy delay between when its out and lost target and when it goes back into its hole, just so an engi cant just tease it by going back and forth and keep it going in and out of its hole. I like those plans, Keef. They might be more apt to deal with bumpy terrain and somewhat slanted ones. Though, the way these are turning out, they'd have to be Commander dropped.
I'd prefer simply bolting the top plate to the gun riser, and having the gun pivot around underneath it, it makes more sense than a complex door system.
The door movment even for the most complicated of the doors shown actually in reality isnt all that complicated, the only real "complicated" portion of this is the turrent moving up and down which you would have too do regaurdless. For instance you could use one of the turrents like the "F" one where the hatch opens and closes, but this is going so fast for opening and closing you could get away with having the hitboxes not even move except the turrent part, just make the door opening flip up then down in just the model(all for show), the only hard part is timing it right. Ive seen models use far more complex movment for buildings, take for instance any buildings in NS, they all have their own little deploy movement which is far more complicated then 4 doors simply flopping up and then down. And plus the idea here is too make them as weak as normal turrents when they are above ground, so making them look the same would give off that impression no?
I know it isn't actualy complex, but this is a bit of military hardware that is supposed to be hard wearing, so simplicity is preferable, simply mounting the gun under the roof and popping the roof up exposes as little of the inner workings as possible (as you have a big plate over the top) and also means a simpler model, which is good for performance.
If you want. I was thinking a fairly simple flat topped square pyramid though, and the top lifts up to reveal the gun.
mmm, yes might be more practicle, though I dont know how much concepting you'd have too do since your basically just implementing the HL turrent. But do keep in mind the height to which we should be aiming, if you really look at the turrents in Empires they are pressed pretty close too the ground for the size of the gun part itself, and if we add a fat layer of top too it they will be down even farther(remember turrents are just high enough too be jumped upon, and I think it would be best too stay thinking in those terms for the turrents) The axis at which the turrent itself rotates up down ( ~90 degrees) and around the base (360 degrees) would also be limited less not only on the top but the bottom as well from the distance you have too drop the axis too make room for the upper "shell" of the turrent. So by including a large top too cover the turrent you restrict field of fire of the turrent significantly from the original turrent.
That issue can be resolved by simply putting more space between the roof and the base, and mounting the turret in the middle. Or by making the roof smaller and having the gun barrel be extendable.
well if you simply put more room between the roof and the base your going too make your turrent taller than crouch height. Extendable is a good idea though it would make the turrent slightly more complicated with the adjustable piece on the moving turrent itself. Can you give me some concepts on what kind of extendable barrel we would be looking at? What I really think we need atm is some more opinions on where this should be going. Please post opinions on these arguments
Just have the barrel retract into the main gun carriage, so it's got the same amount on either side, then close the lid. I'll do a sketch.
