Tweaks to squad mechanics since we arent going to get the massive overhaul we need

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by blizzerd, Jun 1, 2016.

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Is devoirur a naysayer?

  1. This idea is great

    0 vote(s)
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  2. yes

    3 vote(s)
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  1. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    -each player in a squad gathers a separate pool of squad points
    -squad points under 'squad' are the points the squad leader has
    -each player in a squad can use their respective squad ability
    -squad points gained are devised amongst squad members but most go to sl (30% for squad lead, rest is devised up)
    -squad points gained are increased slightly, but there is a cap of 45(30?) points, having more then this means your squad points are given to another squad mate.

    And the biggest code wise edit

    make squad lead have commander vision (the top down thing, never gonna happen lol i know but a guy can dream)


    Why?

    Make squads more dynamic, prevent horrible 'wrong guy squad leading at a specific moment loses the game', make people understand and learn 'squads' faster in a less essential role, more fun since more options.
     
  2. Solokiller

    Solokiller Member

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    Is it that hard to add a button to toggle between top down and FPS view?
     
  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so basically only have squads so you have targets for squadpowers and a way to gain points?
    then strip squads altogether and make skills distance based and points generated like score-points.

    do it. its not meant as con argument. squads dont really work out anyway, theres so many occasions where its smater if not everyone sticks together in squadrange at all costs ...

    ... especially later in game. you just dont need 5 people to deal with the obligatory stray apc or hidden scunt in your rax.

    but youll also need to tone down sqaudpowers or else the amount of squadarties will magically multiply by a factor of about 5 ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  4. Devourawr

    Devourawr Member

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    Squads are fine as they are. Add a poll so I can be a naysayer
     
  5. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    Squad arties are powerful because you can spam them... with this you could still... but it would require coordination between 5 people, since available squad points per person would be devided roughly through 5 so thats already a nerf in itself.

    This idea promotes both individualistic squads as allows groups of people working together to actually work together instead of suck the squad leads dick 24/7.
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    it wouldnt require coordination, since everyone could cast squad arty it would just happen because its a reasonable thing to do in certain situations.
    the factor of 5 part obviously was made up (only because squads have 5 players)
     
  7. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    In order for people to do squad arty they need to all be gren + all save up the points + all be at the same point in time on the same place roughly and pick the same target

    Will this every happen organically? yes... of course... but more often then not with coordination.
    Currently in empires its either the coordination of 10 male ballerinas all groping each other up but no homo or 10 mentally challenged quadriplegics trying to synchronized ice skate.

    There needs to be more organically formed middle ground.
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    organized would only make it worse - but even if its organic you should expect a lot more squad arties if you enable 4 additional players per squad to use it.

    and now that i write it, shouldnt we actually only mainly account for the organized part? it kinda is the "worst case" scenario from a balancing perspective.
     
  9. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    Describe a situation where organization could do something in this system the current system cannot.
     
  10. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    "each player in a squad can use their respective squad ability" so each player on a team could cast squad arty at the same target at the same time.
    i know how unlikely this is, but we talk workst cases, thats - at worst - 32x squad arty on a single target.

    so you should consider toning down damage a bit ... ofc not by a factor of 32.
     
  11. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    What would that accomplish though...

    assume a full team of grens all squadded up, what are they going to squad arty that will warrant making that investment and abandon basically EVERYTHING ELSE in the game for it let alone have the logistics to get everyone there at the same time?

    Are you aware that a full team of grens can single shot a commander if they hit the same side?

    Dont get me wrong though i like your style...
    If this is a problem you could make a global or team cooldown of 3 seconds on abilities, as in its impossible to use an ability for 3 seconds if soneone else used it.

    3 seconds should be plenty to prevent instant spam, but still allow coordinated spam.
    If you spam a commander, 3 second minimum should be plenty to start moving and drive out of trouble.
     
  12. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    touché - yet squad arties have no pre warning and can be cast at view distance - reliably on immobile targets, you only need to see where its supposed to land. plus it damages an area, you could insta-remove a whole base with a handful of grens from draw distance.

    you said squad arty only is problematic when it can be spammed. its no real difference only that it requires more players.
     
  13. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    Agreed, minor tweaks might be nessesary... for example squad hide being cast multiple times in the same squad.

    but i see this as mere balancing tweaks and kinks that can be worked out easily through short timers or not being able to use a skill while other skills are active in your squad and stuff.
     
  14. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    no dont overcomplicate it. just reduce damage a bit to account for more squad arties being used as this will happen.
    i dont think it will ever be as extreme as i described in any of my posts.
     
  15. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    tiny 3 second cooldown timers or being unable to use it while another squad power is active is not overcomplicating it too much in my eye, most players wont even notice this 99% of the time. but sure, whatever the devs think is best i guess i can take it or leave it
     
  16. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    damn you reply too fast :D

    i had this edited in in the meanwhile:
    as for squadhide, cant you keep a squad hidden all the time already anyway? then theres no difference. heal also fully heals, no difference either. whats rofles skill? something with damage? probably also something you can keep running till you need to recast it.

    id consider it peoples job not to cast a skill if its already up.
     
  17. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    I was more thinking about squad hides overlapping, making people instead of invisible quantum tunnel through the twilight zone... (waste points/unexpected behavior)

    for all we know the game is coded that rifle damage stacks... imagine if 5* damage riflemen start dealing out the 1337 skillz yo
     
  18. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    how do you know the squad skills would stack with eachother if they dont stack with eachother now? is there unused code allowing for this to happen already?
     
  19. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    I never said they did, but unexpected things happen when you make changes like this... it would need to be tested.
     
  20. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I guess it's nice, I dunno. Arty spam is really the only problem with it, I do think it could be used to reliably kill commander especially if scout can get one stun off. Fixes for that have been mentioned so it's not that bad.

    Really just kinda want it so squad lead can generate points himself, there's no reason not to. I know about targets giving points, that's just terrible way of doing it though.
     

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