Tank restoration project

I want to fix a long time issue that make tanks always overpowered and the only play in late game, to fix this i suggest the following

My issue is with tanks, their speed and the speed the turret turns

lights need to be 15% slower
meds need to be 50% slower
heavies need to be 75% slower, i dont care if that makes em walking pace they are siegebreakers and should be used like that.

i can do this in scripts, an i will make them, i start next week.
Weapon damage will need to be finetuned etc, but i think for now i leave it, and balance when i try it out.

what i cant do; turret turn speed should be slowed the fuck down, kinda like it tracks the mouse but has to constantly keep up.

 

Yes, the tanks need to be slower, but the Empires will lose some Empiresness with that. The spinning attacks with LT's should still be possible, but with more control. The exact percentages are a little too big (75? how long would it take to go from vf to frontlines?). And we should get more balancing with amount of armor in transition from mid -> heavy, because NF meds are able to hold against BE heavies with decent skill. And the damage balancing... how exactly? I see some weapons which might need decreasing/increasing stats, but how?
The turning thing would be pretty big and hard to code. So you should better ask someone experienced about that.
Summary: make the speed balancement for every vehicle and faction, not make everything n% slower, because this might give the advantage one of the sides. Damage balancing FTW and the turning...
dont steal the thread name next time >_<

 

I think slower in general, but I notice a lot of the engines seem to be fast in general now so I dont feel much difference in speed anymore as opposed to the classic 3phase speed I remember,

 

50% and 75% is too much. However, you do have a point. I think LT and AFV speed of perfect right now - light fast tanks that should be able to move around that battlefield faster than anything except a jeep. It also allows them to be effective later into the game because with little weapons they can slowly wear away at the opponent if the driver is skilled.

But maybe a 15% speed nerf to meds and 30% speed nerf to heavies wouldn't go astray.

 

I agree that for some reason tanks are faster than they were before and getting roadkilled with no counterplay is not much fun, especially noticable with afvs which you could sidestep with speed but now you cant,but source is awful with vehicles, just ask anyone who worked on the tank scripts; you cant have slow tanks else they wont be able to scale shit. A small nerf to speed would go a long way, but you cant have them become turtles else it will just break maps.

 

I just want to take a moment to say this is the perfect type of suggestion for these forums and congratulate blizzerd for actually making a good one, even if his numbers are crazy.

There's no "implement this new vehicle/class/weapon that will be super unique and solve all problems ever. It's a simple idea and easy to implement which would create really good effects on gameplay - mainly, trying to achieve the age old goal of combined arms in empires.

That being said we should nerf comm speed if we're going to nerf med and heavy speed, it's already impossible to catch up to that fucking thing.

 

I personally think that they should be slower and made a bit more realistic, especially considering how small source maps are.

 

I actually have a wild plan but I hesitated to implement.

Don't focus on the numbers, the point is to make it 250 times harder for vehicles to kill infantry.

70% HE resist for Gren. 45% HE resist for other classes.
60% Nuke resist for Gren. 40% Nuke resist for other classes.
50% Arty resist for Gren. 35% Arty resist for other classes.
30% Plasma resist for Gren, 20% Plasma resist for other classes.
Plasma CN explosion radius 325->175.
+15% RPG/Mortar damage against Medium <-- I will definitely implement but this requires code work.
+30% RPG/Mortar damage against Heavy. <--- I will definitely implement but this requires code work.
Bio ML explosion radius 300->250, DOT against infantry 75->40.

We don't have to make vehicles slow as fuck because fast vehicles are what makes Empires.
With slow vehicles, the time you spend on "commuting" can be annoying.

 

See, I don't think those changes will do much. I think the general speed of mediums and heavies NEEDS to slow down. While Empires does have some fast vehicles and we are all use to it, part of the problem is tanks easily out running infantry and running them over without being able to dodge them.

They need to slow down, it will change combat but most likely for the better, at least in my opinion. Tanks will take time to aim making them more vulnerable and needing cover rather than just adding some stupid resists that most likely won't do much besides make Infantry OP then compared to tanks. This suggestion relies on tanks are strong vs infantry when they can spot them and shoot them but weak when they can't get to them in time which is what we need.

Hell, if the second hatch seat is fixed where it doesn't turn with the turret it MIGHT actually become extremely useful for covering tanks.

 

I have the exact opposite opinion.
Slower vehicle speed isn't going to do shit other than making our vehicle combat sluggish.

Let's be honest, how much of your infantry kills in a vehicle are "roadkills"? If my memory doesn't fuck me, VIPER stats says 5~10%.

Also what's the correlation between "slower vehicle" and "take time to aim, making the more vulnerable"? I see none.

 

If a guy is standing BEHIND the tank and walking up to sticky it and it takes 5 seconds for the turret to turn from front to back, that gives him 5 seconds of a run up to the tank without the tank firing on him allowing infantry to exploit the weak parts. However, if a tank DOES focus in on him it should blow him to smithereens giving tanks a more "support" role.

Vehicle combat is already boring as fuck, everyone complains about it. It is in DIRE need of restoration and I'm surprised this isn't being addressed in some way or another.

 

If a guy is standing behind?
Dude, if the driver has no awareness, the tank is dead, fast turret or not.
It is already true now.
Even with slow turret, IF the driver knows, he can just drive backward and run over the guy.
If the driver doesn't know, then turret speed doesn't matter at all.

If that guy is in front of the tank, dual HE will kill him instantly, who cares about turret/vehicle speed?

In the end, you need to fuck with resist/explosion radius.

 

Tank isn't dead if driver has no awareness, heavy tanks can take quite a lot. Tank driver takes 1 sticky, flips his turret around and blasts the guy. It happens SO frequently when I play I do it and I see many other people do it. That or someone says "Infantry to your left" they flip and kill them in a second.

If tanks moved slightly slower (At least heavies) and turrets didn't immediately flip to where we were looking, tanks would play a supportive role and the game would become more combined arms than what it is currently, which is also a LOT more fun than just tank on tank and infantry on infantry.

 

Keep in mind that sticky grenade has 6 secs fuse.
That means when the 1st sticky grenade explodes, you already have 4 on the enemy tank, that tank is so dead.

If the driver KNOWS there's a guy behind him when that guy just tossed 1st sticky grenade, like I said the driver doesn't have to turn the turret, he can just drive backward/forward.

 

Tanks are GENERALLY on the move and get stickied once allowing the driver to survive the first sticky and know where it came from allowing him to whip around and figure out where he is. Any tank driver who sits in place deserves to die because tanks should stay on the move.

Tank combat needs to be slowed down to bring back/make combined arms happen.

The community, according to this poll, agrees that it all needs to be slowed down to some capacity but you as a dev are going to actively go against the will of the community because you think you know what is better. Look at the poll, NO ONE agrees it is fine right now and no one wants them faster. People think its fast and we, as a community, would like to see it slowed down for a change. Please, listen to the will of the community and what the community wants, its how mods stay alive. Mods don't stay alive when the player base shrinks because the devs wont listen.

 

This thread is about making infantry easier to survive against vehicles.

Dropping vehicle speed is a really inefficient way to achieve that.

I am just posting another solution and I honestly don't know where you got the idea that I am trying to go against the will.

Also come on, the will of the community = 4 players?

 

Going to have to agree with trump on this one. Security, riflemen/scouts already have a large advantage over tanks, that being like trump mentioned, exploiting blind spots of the tank drivers. I also agree that tanks should be slowed down. I do realize that todays MBTs can drive just as fast as the one's in game, but I think slowing them down a bit could enhance teamwork in that regard. When a team has enough resources for everyone to be in a tank, infantry combat becomes virtually useless, with the exception of building/defending forward structures. If tanks are slowed to be that of or less than infantry, it's still a viable doctrine. Plus, you would be happy knowing that infantry would still be relevant come late game. Everyone wins.

 

I think you misread the purpose of this thread, let me reiterate,
"I want to fix a long time issue that make tanks always overpowered and the only play in late game, to fix this i suggest the following"

He's saying that it should be more than just tank combat meaning it should be more combined arms rather than infantry surviving. The whole point of this post is to, I believe, make tanks supportive to infantry squads and have them not be the only dominate thing end game. With your buffs, people will still be in tanks against tanks, his fixes are meant to make infantry a little more viable in a combined arms scenario. Yours simply just makes infantry OP against tanks... like they already are. '

Dropping vehicles speed is actually, I would think, very efficient. Tanks can no longer turn at the speed of light and need cover from infantry as well along with callouts from nearby tanks and infantry to be effective in a close quarter scenario. Tanks shouldn't be weak vs infantry, they are fucking tanks. They should decimate infantry but they also should be weak to infantry when they aren't aimed in on them.

You are posting another solution to a problem that wasn't presented.

Well, 7 people have voted that the "speeds of tanks in general" need fixing. It's not "Infantry vs tanks" its Tank speed that is the topic here. No one has voted to keep tanks the SAME SPEED so, I do think you should respect this choice because rarely do 7 people on this forum agree to some degree that there is an issue and how to solve it. This thread 7 people have agreed that tanks are fast and should be slowed down to some extent.

 

If infantry is already OP against tank, right, then we should bury this thread right?
That's clearly false.

As long as dual HE still one-shots any infantry, there's no place for infantry in late game.

Slower speed will just slow down our vehicle combat.

 

Just to add on to Trump's idea (dont' know if this was already mentioned), If you reduce speed it helps increase the survival rate of infantry by allowing quick dodging, 'nother plus for you security.