[Request] Fix emp_frost

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by VulcanStorm, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi all.

    So we had a game on frost today. But there are a few problems with the map, that need fixing.

    Problem 1: NF base construction.
    It is almost impossible to place a VF in NF's main base area. along with placing other buildings. I can only find 1 place to put it. The area is definitely large enough, and the terrain is fairly flat, however it is on a slope, so the building placement doesn't work correctly, as it can't find a flat area to place one. It is also hard to place other buildings here.

    Problem 2: Map design.
    The map is very 1 sided towards BE. I have never seen NF win when playing it.
    The issue lies in the lower left hand corner, which is where most of the fighting seems to occur, where NF end up having to build their main base.
    BE has only 1 main path leading to their main base, all their refineries lie along this path.
    However NF has 3 out of 4 of their refineries in a seemingly open area, this area resembles a circle, and has two entrances from the central "bridge". This forces NF to defend the central "bridge", otherwise they have to defend from two sides. BE only ever have to defend from 1 side.

    What needs doing:
    1)The main base areas could do with some flattening, to allow for more buildings to be placed.
    2) A general re-design of the main playing area and central part of the map, to make the map less 1 sided, and open more paths to winning.

    The map has a lot of potential, and some wonderful ideas within it(those infantry tunnels), however it is almost impossible for NF to come back when they lose control of the open area.

    If some mapper would like a project to do, then this map needs some attention. :)
     
  2. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    it's not BE sided.
     
  3. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Is it not? I find it almost impossible to come back from losing those two refs as NF...

    With BE, you can push back along the path slowly, and recapture all 4. Whereas NF has to split their efforts after capturing the second. I feel this makes it very difficult to come back from a bad start as NF....
     
  4. BlackRedDead

    BlackRedDead Member

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    the problem of building on frost is not a map unique issue! - it's a general issue by the game and wasn't that present back in the days!
    (tough frost is just a shitmap and you are right about the massive async behavior, but the building issues are new! - can clearly remember games where we build propper FOB's directly at the lake and armory's on some of the small islands!)
    but frost is a good example how it wich i used too to describe the problem here ;-)
     
  5. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    I vote to just remove frost from the entire internet. As well as flat, cod ... and probably some other maps i started working on that i abandoned, and got put online still unfinished after someone asked me for the vmf.

    Frost was one of my first maps, to learn hammer. It was interesting at first when there weren't a lot of maps, but once there was a bit more choice this map should have been removed from server rotations.
    Flat was my testmap for huge cliffs, to see how the engine would handle the displacements. I hadn't even begun to optimize a layout, plan details and infantry routes, or anything gameplay related at all
    Cod was a jokemap, an insult to the personal taste of most empires players in the last few years where tactical maps got abandoned for maps with just 1 or 2 routes with the layout being barely more than just a circle. So in my anger i made a map that was just a line, so i knew the worst map possible already existed. It definitely wasn't supposed to get played, and certainly not enjoyed.

    This community really adores shit maps ;)
     
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  6. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Yes it really does...
     
  7. BlackRedDead

    BlackRedDead Member

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    well, i don't like cod too, but it's still a stable map for small playercounts (and better forrests than canyon, though you can still get stuck at some points :-/)

    emp_frost:
    well, you could fix the issues on it, the concept of "island" wars wasn't so bad! :)
    but its asynch behavior, the lack of cover (on islands too) and POI's on the rest of the map made it no real fun to play!
    also the terrain needs to be a bit smoothed to actually allow building - though it's a game issue and not mapside! (the building props could easaly surpass most uneven terrains!)
    maybe a bit more challenging driveway over the lake (maybe with two obstacles that serve as cover too) to prevent to easy rushes over the lake)
    also that construction building is a quite interesting POI, maybe made something gameplay enhancing out of it and add flagpoints to the "city's"... well no, actually would shift the balance to much because it's meant to be played in more of a straight line...

    and making shitmaps as parody to community likes them? O.o - lol...
    thats like politicians do shit just because ppl likes it xP
     
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I really like flat, I really don't see any problems with it outside of no starting ref and only 100 res(people new to commanding that map can easily screw themselves.). It may not seem like it has any special things going on but it just gives room for more freeform stuff. As in base layouts or how you fortify frontlines, using walls and turrets to force the flow of a fight, but it can't simply be spammed because of the low res rate of the map. It's great stuff that I feel several maps kinda suffer from not having enough of.
     
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  9. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    I will admit I am guilty of liking Flat as well, but more because it has a different type of gameplay to what people are used to. Low tickets, low resources and no engineer turret gives a more "hardcore" feel to the map.
     
  10. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I keep forgetting there's no turrets on flat, I can't remember the last time I didn't command on it. Helps explain my confusion as to why no one was dropping turrets except for me. Now that you mention it when we play higher pop on it game ends within like 3-5 minutes of meds being researched due to no tickets which might be another reason I like it, there's no heavies on that map.
     
  11. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    Anyway i don't think the vmf for frost still exists even
    We're talking roughly 10 years ago
     
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  12. BlackRedDead

    BlackRedDead Member

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    well...
    * forward in the past *
    ...or so
     

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