Police Shootings, The Death of Philando Castile and the violent consequences

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Grantrithor, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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  2. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    I'm awaiting full evidence to be released before I make up my mind on the situation, all we have now are the testimony of the lady and the testimony of the cop saying he was reaching for the gun which he did have.

    However, that being said, he should be held accountable for letting the man die, but for shooting him I am undecided until the facts are laid out. Cop could have easily taken the man out, tourniqueted him and applied pressure to other bleeding and had him live, that is negligence that he should be accountable for.
     
  3. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    So let me get this straight, you are linking an old article that could not be verified, at all, from a very uncredible source and claiming it as fact now. At least my sources were reputable when I linked them. Also, how does owning mein kampf and Hitlers speeches make you bad? You could be a WW2 buff, you could have read them as Hitler was one of the GREATEST public speakers whether you agree with his policies or not (I do not, just for the record). There is a lot to learn from the way he spoke, my speech teacher even said that, she said, "He was one of the greatest public orators of all time, but obviously used this skill for evil." You can learn a lot from the way he spoke about public persuasion.

    Again, you are assuming things I have not said and claiming them as fact. I said that every person deserves a trial, and of course certain crimes deserve a more harsh punishment while others are more lenient. You are now assuming that every punishment should be death penalty because I said she is a traitor, (which btw, traitors used to be shot quite often, or at least imprisoned more recently but Hillary escaped all of that. I would have been happy as hell should she be imprisoned, but I do not stand for traitors, does that mean I am the law? No. Does it mean that the law would get the choice to decide her punishment? Yes, and I would support their imprisonment, but our system is corrupt and let her slide but they continue to peruse other people who do the same thing.

    Again about the second amendment, you are making this a race issue. I said I am waiting till all facts are present because CURRENTLY we have 2 sides of the story with no 3rd party looking into it. We have the side of the lady who said "HE SHOT MY HUSBAND HE SHOT MY HUSBAND 4-5 TIMES HE PULLED US OVER FOR A BROKEN TAIL LIGHT" Then we have the Cops side "I TOLD HIM NOT TO REACH FOR IT I TOLD HIM NOT TO REACH FOR IT", So yes, I will wait until facts are present rather than jumping on the HATE ALL COPS! train. You are assuming that the cop is immediately guilty, however the guy COULD have been reaching for his gun, we don't know all we have is 2 conflicting stories. Am I saying the cop is innocent? No, he could be guilty, but again I want to wait to make up MY MIND until more evidence is present. I support the mans right to use his second amendment right, and if the cop is guilty it is a travesty the man died this way, especially in front of his daughter.

    However, as all of my family has concealed carry, there is a very strict procedure when a cop approaches your vehicle and you have a loaded fire arm on you. Hands are to be on the dash at all times, you are to inform the officer at the start, and you listen to the officer give instructions on what to reach for and/or hand over your fire arm for the moment WITH his permission. I've been pulled over myself and did something stupid that wasn't something the officer told me to do and he started screaming at me to stop what I was doing, I did, and the situation de-escalated. Again, is the cop innocent with all of this? No, I will await for further evidence, but if the man was reaching for his gun and the cop saw this and didn't tell him to, I would assume I'm about to be shot as well. Remember the famous Mike Brown case where some witnesses said he was "running away from the cop" but then when questioned it turned out he got in a fight with the officer... yea... stories change. Again, I want to wait for more evidence before I make an informed decision rather than a knee-jerk emotional reaction.

    ____________________________________________________________________

    Edit: After re-reading your comment, you were referring to Baton Rogue, my apologies. However, again, I think that I will await evidence before making an official remark. Police have their story, there APPEARS to be SOME sort of altercation and an object in his pocket (Which the police removed AFTER The shooting) so if it WAS a gun and they were holding his upper body, he VERY WELL Could have reached for it. Do I advocate for this guy? If he was killed unjustly the police should be prosecuted to full penalty, however, this guy also didn't have concealed carry (Your mixing that up with the Minneapolis one).
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  4. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Oh look at that, the response is to shoot cops now
    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Protests-in-Dallas-Over-Alton-Sterling-Death-385784431.html

    Edit: 2 Officers shot

    Edit 2: 3 Officers shot with high caliber weapons.

    Edit 3: Multiple shooters confirmed.

    Edit 4: 4 Officers shot, 1 confirmed dead.\

    Edit 5: 4 Officers shot, 3 dead.

    Edit 6: 10 officers shot, many dead. Shot by sniper from rooftop, ongoing gun battles in the streets.

    Edit 7: 11 Officers shot, 5 dead, 2 snipers from different locations, ongoing gun battle in garage, bomb reported down town.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  5. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    [​IMG]
    teamsters public and law enforcement employee's union
     
  6. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    I am so deeply saddened by the massacre of the Dallas police, this country is going to hell real fast, in fact we are already there.

    Obama had a lot to do with the mindset of some groups today with his meddling in state legal cases and affairs and making statements that set this mindset off. I can't wait for him to be gone from office.
     
  7. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Again, you are coming off as condescending when I am trying to have a normal conversation with you by insinuating that I am stupid. I agree that over the last 8 years it seems "racism", or perceived racism, has grown to unhealthy proportions within our country. However, most cops out there are good cops who don't go out on a shooting spree to see how many people they can bag. I agree, it is the duty of EVERY AMERICAN to stop racism, but it's also something that isn't going to go away at the drop of a hat or because someone wants it to. It goes away with time, and this has to be recognized.

    You can wait for all the evidence you like, but this case differs from the others in the fact that it was a clearly targeted attack against people in uniform with no "2 sides" to the story like the other ones where it is 1 officer vs 1 witness (in the castile case, although I lean towards Castile was innocent) and 2 officers vs 3 witnesses (With unclear video, 1 video shows there could have been a confrontation and the other looks away right before shots go off). In this case, however, it was a coordinated attack by Anti-Cop Domestic Terrorist group BLM while cops were DOING THEIR JOBS and allowing the people to protest police brutality. It is saddening this is the state of our country.

    Just for reference, white people get shot at about a 3:1 ratio compared to black people, by cops. BLM just throws out fake statistics to get their side heard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  8. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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  9. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Police Chiefs statement about what one of the shooters said:
    ""He was upset about Black Lives Matter," Brown said, adding that the man cited the recent killings of black people and said that he wanted to kill white people — particularly white police officers."

    So now it IS a hate crime, targeted officers and will set back race relations even more because officers are now going to be even more scared. Good work!

    Edit: I want to throw this in to, "Brown added that the suspect said he was "not affiliated with any groups and he stated that he did this alone."


    However, there were lots of tweets out there from BLM saying the cops deserved this, which is despicable.

    Edit 2: Black Power Political Organization takes credit for the massacre, claims those involved were members.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  10. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Ruling on Philando is cop is charged with homicide and I stand behind that ruling unless, of course, further evidence emerges clearing him but I doubt it will.
     
  11. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    you never said anything about the black people. i guess people bleeding out and dying on video isnt saddening enough

    from a canadian perspective it seems like obama made race relations worse from the day he was elected, because people realized a black guy could be in charge. obama!
    he was stopped over 50 times for traffic violations though. this doesnt vilify him enough?
    i'd be surprised to see an actual punishment
     
  12. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Lol, blaming obama, you americans are hilarious
     
  13. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Well, he surely hasn't helped the racial divide. Everytime he gets up to talk about police violence etc, he somehow manages to blame guns/white people, even when the person shot completely deserved it. And you really think our country is that bad at race relations Paradox? You are only hearing about the worst. Blacks kill more blacks everyday, yet their community doesn't seem to care about this fact. They kill each other more and more than any white people kill black people. It is a travesty what happened, I admit it especially if they were innocent, but its more of a problem that these communities need to come out and discuss rather than hiding from it.

    Also, reports are now surfacing that Philando Castile was an Armed Robbery Suspect who robbed a gas station, police officer apparently saw him and approached with gun drawn because he looked like the man which gives just cause for him to have his gun out. Since he was also armed, that could lead to the officer knowing he had a gun that was used for violence and being a tad trigger happy. Again, we don't know all the facts, but now some other information is starting to trickle out.

    Again, going to wait until this information is confirmed before coming to a final conclusion.
     
  14. Fooshi

    Fooshi For fuck's sake Fooshi

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    Hah, discussing politics on a forum instead of being outside hunting Pokemons.
     
  15. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    I just caught like 30 when I went out. Got a Jynx :)
     
  16. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    Black Power fixed!
     
  17. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    its their religion!

    also i love how DT speaks out against racism, only to be subtextually racist 3 posts later.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016
  18. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    what does that mean
     
  19. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Alright, time to say it. You don't know what Racism is. Racism, by definition. In no way did I say that White's are superior to blacks, or did I even sub textually say that. I presented facts, and I am sorry fact's can now be considered racist, but to the sane and well reasoned person this is not the case. Hiding from your problems and refusing to confront them breeds more stupidity about the issues and overall worsens the situation.

    Now, I'm going to say a "racist" comment by your definition, not by Merriam Websters. As a white person, it fucking sucks to constantly be told I'm the devil, I have to apologize for slavery (In which my ancestors had nothing to do with as they immigrated over from Germany after WW1 to avoid living under Nazi's), to be told that I am privileged because of being white even though my family wasn't exactly upper middle class and I have made a good life for myself thus far because of hard work. But no, this hard work is dismissed as "white privilege" and demonized by so many communities, but this isn't racism? It sucks when companies have to fill a "race quota" or get benefits from having people of different races. It sucks that colleges will award a full ride to my friend because hes 50% Mexican even though I scored better on everything compared to him, and I have to pay full tuition because I'm white. But this isn't racism?

    I'm so fed up with being called a racist for pointing out facts, I'm so fucking sick of constantly being told I have to let other people walk all over me for shit someone else's ancestors did so long ago. You wanna fix this "terrible issue" in which blacks are shot, take a class to learn what officers go through. Literally, when Philando Castile was shot, a 6 year old white boy with autism was killed but NO ONE heard anything about that because "RACISM!" even though the guy was possibly an armed robbery suspect reaching for his "wallet" inside a glove compartment box without the officers permission. You follow the officers orders and nothing bad happens whether you are a person of color or not. Notice how all of these "racist" cop shootings happen and video/witness testimony comes out saying they were resisting? I'll concede, there were a COUPLE times when it was active racism and those assholes should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law because that is absolutely disgraceful that they were even allowed to hold that position, most notably the video which showed the one black guy sitting and the volunteer sheriff shot him. Disgraceful and he should be charged and convicted of murder.

    Everyone is equal, I treat everyone as a human being but I get called racist when I don't hold certain people in the spotlight and I'm sick of it. Everyone is a fucking human being, stop killing each other It's as simple as that. But I won't stop from pointing out facts that Blacks kill more blacks than cops kill blacks or whites kill blacks, but this is racist isn't it because facts are now racist? Gang violence (between blacks), contributes the most to gun violence right behind suicide, 50 people were shot in Chicago this weekend due to gangs and yet nothing about that! There are racists out there, they are the KKK, the Black Panthers, the BLM organization, Neo-Nazi's, West-Boro Baptist Church, Neo-Confederates, Black Riders. I am not a member of any of these active racial hate groups because I strive to treat people fairly, gather facts before making a decision, and I'm now called racist.

    Edit: In B4 you write this off as "LOL WHITE TEARS"
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016
  20. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    yes, i wonder, since you seem to know yourself ....

    facts can be used racist aswell if you leave out reasons and present them single sided. and yes, racism in minority group exists.

    but fuck reasoning right, its their skin color and its their religion, its that simple, but its not racist if you say its not racist. or so ...

    ... you pick random groups based on random features and speak about them in a demeaning manner - what term do you suggest instead of racism? it not the words if you want different words we can agree (possibly)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016

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