Points for Grens destroying armor plates

In the way that engineers get points for building shit, rifleman for killing shit, grens should get points for killing armor plates.

Not so much the # of plates, but amount of damage done, like 1 point per 150. I don't know the numbers for RPG damage and HP of each plate type, but something that averages to about 2 or 3 plates of armor per point.

Now I'll say why I think so but I bet most people will agree. Grens get points for killing tanks now, and the ppl inside, but most of the time the tank retreats wounded. A gren can rout a hundred tanks like that and not get any points for it, even though he's helped his team out tremendously. And this isn't just a hypothetical situation, it happens quite often (okay maybe not a hundred tanks).

That wouldn't even be a big deal though if points didn't matter, but for grens they do a lot. Grens always need ammo increase, and armor detection is a big deal too. Starting as gren and getting the 20 points for both is trés hard right now.

Con: It could be a bit of a fine line between too easy to make points and not effective enough. But then again, there are a lot of things in empires that could be hammered out, but still work well.

 

please give nao

 

Whichever dev does it may have/not have my babies based on their preference.

 

I'de do armor/hull, or at the bare minimum just hull, as that's where it counts. It sucks getting an APC to blinky red only to find out you have no mroe ammo

 

Special code override?
If you hit a tank on a place where it has no plates you'll instantly destroy it.

 

i agree with this, but it should give points for more than 2-3 plates destroyed, if one engy can get a point for repairing (say) 8 plates, gren should get one for destorying ~6 imo.

 

3 plates seems good - 3 plates of an upgraded armour that is...maybe something like 1 rank point per 250 damage or possibly 300. Most grenadiers who do significant damage and are currently rewarded with nothing do at least this much.

Alternatively, if you want to have it at a low value like 150, I would suggest that you stop giving points per passenger in the vehicle - give 1 point for destroying the vehicle, and 1 point for the driver.

 

Well again I just pulled the 150 out of my ass. I have no idea what the damage and HP numbers are. Lets see, the vehicle menu tells me armors go up to 93hp/plate or so, so 93*5=465. 5 or so plates of highest strength armor per point sounds fair to me.

I don't know if the vehicle menu HP is actually related to rpg damage though.

 

bottom line is that this is a seriously awesome idea, values can come later.

 

This should be implemented on all weapons (i.e. both infantry and tank). Points should be done via damage rather than kills IMO.

 

QFT

Empires has become a more team/squad kill game rather than a lone kill game, however, the point system hasn't adjusted to this style of game play leading to "kill stealing" even if it is you and another working together.

So if your partner is a little late on the draw and kills the guy while your reloading he essentially steals the kill.

Or if your partner only has a SMG with you have a rifle leading to you getting all the kills and points.

This could also separate the noobs from newbs because noobs may have little or no points due to not doing anything or high kills and no few points due to kill stealing. Newbs would have a good number of points due to them trying.

I think I'm starting to ramble

 

Loves this idea

 

I'm opposed to this idea on the grounds that points should be a cap-and-trade program for things people should do to progress the game. You don't need to reward me for shooting at tanks or infantry, that's something I do anyway to try to get kills. You need to reward me for getting the kill, because that's what is going to make the game progress.

If players are given more points for doing damage than for actually getting kills (indeed, some in this thread are proposing that no point for a kill would be given), you're going to get this fucked up bizarro-empires where people just try to shoot everything they see once to maximize points without any concern for getting kills.

Getting a vehicle/infantry kill right now is like the money shot. Kills pay the bills. Kills move the game forward. Doing damage is ultimately meaningless to the progress of the game unless someone gets a kill. The point system should NOT be in the business for rewarding something like this.

No, No, No. This is a bad idea. Focus fire should be rewarded, not punished. I'll get less points if i shoot and kill a near-dead tank than if I shoot a fully healed one that is just giong to drive away? This is a terrible idea.

Listen, I agree with anyone in this thread that believes that grens have a hard time accumulating points or doing their jobs. THIS IS NOT THE SOLUTION. please think about the overarching ramifications for something like this.

 

Would it mitigate your concerns if this only applied to the same vehicle? - i.e. you can't do 50 damage to every vehicle you come across, but rather 250 damage to one vehicle to earn a rank point.

 

So you'd get more points for running around a tank and shooting each side 2 times than for shooting the same side 3 times and killing it outright?

No. This would not mitigate my concerns, it would make them worse.

 

im more in the belief that we should copy distopias point system. This way its damage based but, only points for a kill and it is shared with the people who made the kill and the helpers. Limited to the top 3 who did damage with a fade out timer of 20 seconds.

Points (points to be spread out to 3 ppl)
Building 8 (4,2,2)
Tank 6 (3,2,1)
Trooper 3 (1,1,1)
Turret 2 (1,1) (really if it takes 3 ppl to kill this your sad)


However implementing this might be too much strain on the server as it would need to keep track of lots of timers and dmg counts.

 

Well right now you can say that players are being punished for not getting points for injuring-but-not-killing tanks. At 1 point per 5 plates of high-test armor's worth of damage (minimum), you aren't going to be point whoring with much success (there are better ways). So even someone who wants to whore points as gren would go for the kill. (I never suggested removing points for kills of passengers, and I'm quite against it (and I know you didn't say I did))

You could say the same thing about engineers with repair upgrade; they get a point for building things, and can do it into infinity without affecting the game (like a gren camping on a hill with an ammobox, taking potshots without getting kills), but you never see engineers dropping turrets, building them to full health just to recycle them, starting over and hoarding the points.

Also, it is useful to the team when plates are taken off by grens. Even if you don't get the kill, the tank is forced to drive off or be killed by someone else.

I just don't think points are so important, or that this suggestion even allows their whoring, that people will become point-crazed and forget about winning the game. Who knows, maybe more people will go gren because, even if they're not that great, they can get a few points here and there. Perhaps less scouts?

 

They're not being punished. Equating the lack of reward to a punishment is fucking stupid (I really shouldn't have to, but if you insist, I can provide an argument). However, on a grand scale, the problem is not that grens are not getting enough points, it's that they aren't killing enough tanks. Fucking with the point system is not going to change this, this is a separate issue entirely and has its own solution.

1 point per 5 plates is AT LEAST 1 point per 2 rpgs for most armor, maybe a little worse for comp and reactive... under the CURRENT system. When RPGs are buffed in 2.25 it will be even greater. Honestly, the jury's out on whether or not this would be the fastest way to point farm. This is an absolutely unprecedented level of point accumulation, only really rivaled by an engineer constantly reviving (something he can't do all the time... his calculator has to recharge and he needs warm bodies). Engineers might be getting points too fast, but once again, this is a separate issue.

Also, engineers don't get points for constructing engineer buildables, so that makes your entire point there moot. By the way, if this actually worked, I would do it all the time.

You suggest that damaging a tank without destroying it is useful, which might actually be slightly true (it's never nearly as useful as killing it outright for reasons that do not require repeating), but you are suggesting that this behavior should be rewarded on a truly unprecedented scale. Grens under the new system will get more points for damaging a tank that will stay alive ad infinitum than for killing it outright. Indeed, if a gren was looking to maximize points, it would seem that it would be in his best interest if enemy tanks were scarce to allow an enemy tank to drive away and repair so he could continue shooting it. Under the current system, such an exploit of the point system is impossible.

This system is the most unparsimonious solution to a problem that I have seen in recent history. Let's fix the gren in the ways that we all agree and go from there before we start throwing in shit like this.

 

You'd have more points, but you'd also be dead.