Mines do neglible damage to buildings

The problem is that it only takes one person to set off a chain of mines and destroy a building. At that point it has nothing to do with the skill of the grenadier placing the mines, or the rest of the team, or anything like that; it's essentially random luck over whether one noob will spawn and step on a mine. Things that let one person accidentally cost their team the game should be avoided.

Likewise, one missing turret should not let a single person destroy a structure. This is part of the reason why 9-mining was removed, for instance. The game is meant to focus on team strategies and people working together to overcome defenses and take down enemy buildings; anything that would let one person destroy a building instantly should be discouraged.

Truthfully, I think that most of the raging in this thread is by people who are angry that 9-mining was removed, and want to keep one small part of it, however silly it seems. If you want my honest assessment, dropping mines in an enemy rax doesn't generally work very often. It's a strategy for thrill-seekers and idiots, people who feel like randomly risking their life on whether or not someone spawns, just to get a random chance again on whether or not some noob sets off their mines.

But like the scout rifle, it's problematic because it encourages people to play in a stupid fashion, by making it seem like they can accomplish more by abandoning their team and trying to mine an enemy structure all on their own. It is in its own way worse than 9-mining, because now, instead of simply being hostile to teamwork, it is both hostile to teamwork and randomly ineffective. That combination of things is silly and should not exist.

If you want grenadiers to have the ability to sneak into structures and blow them up again, go ask for 9-mining to be reintroduced. Having it depend on an enemy setting the mines off, though, is bad gameplay mechanics.

 

But that can be said of every part of the game, people could let a tank past, a squad could squad hide past your lines and set up a rax, one APC spawn could rush your rear base.

All the game is based around 'if you aren't good enough then you lose and by extension, your team loses'.

If a gren drops a load of mines in your rax and it gets killed so what? It's one grenadier and he can't blow anything else up, if a squad of people are in the base then the base is legitimately under attack and if you haven't placed defences and don't have a garrison there to keep people out then it's going to die.

Place two raxes if you want to make extra sure the base can be defended, or place turrets, if you just drop a few structures and don't defend them they're going to die if the enemy attacks them.

 

Actually, it's useful for killing the infantry in a building if there's a bunch of engineers repairing a barracks that just won't go down. Lay a few mines and melee the engineers. If someone chases you, run around a corner. Oops, a mine! 99% guaranteed kablooey.

 

First off, if a grenadier is allowed to enter a barracks without anyone doing anything about it, then that barracks probably wasn't important enough to keep anyways.

Second, having such tactics allows the losing team to always keep a small window of hope, knowing that one special ops mission could turn the battle in their favor.

Third, the mines alone are not enough to destroy a barracks, and it still requires a person to activate them, unlike sabotage and seismic spam which do much better without the presence of the enemy. This means that a grenadier cannot detonate the barracks unless it is being actively used. making it far more difficult for a grenadier to live long enough to drop all eight mines, let alone get to the barracks.

 

First off, you've effectively described most of the starting area barracks after the forwards have been established. And in many circumstances, the starting area is quite important.

Second, a losing team is usually losing due to technological inferiority or lack of area control. Demolishing one barracks at the rear will generally not make any difference if you are alone.

Third, the mines can take a good chunk out of the barracks once activated. All a Grenadier has to do is draw enough attention and then once some stupid dunce walks into a mine the chain reaction does the rest.

Again, I'm not contesting the whole idea of mine placement in barracks (though I would sorely like to see that changed), but I'm contesting the fact that they do substantial damage to the structure upon detonation.

 

If a gren can get inside your base and mine a rax, your team has failed at doing teamwork and defending your assets properly.

I'm not sure why you think that mining rax is counter productive to teamwork as defending against lonewolves FORCES you to do teamwork or you lose the game.

Also if it gets mined having your team spawn at a different place or only have a gren with defusal spawn is called strategy and teamwork.
Meaning that if you cant do strategy and teamwork in a team you fail and lose the game.
Again the above forces you to do teamwork or lose.

The former two examples being almost the only things in a game that actually force you to do teamwork or lose. Thus improving the game a lot.


Also as said before 8 mines wont kill the rax so it either takes two grenadeers (== teamwork) or one grenadier entering the base TWICE (== fail at teamwork for defending party)

 

Teamwork cannot stop people who lone wolf as people who teamwork will tend to stay together, this means that they are less spread out allowing people to get past them, especially on the more open maps.

What teamwork are you talking about? One person mines the rax, another player defuses it. Having more than player spawn there is very counter productive as there is the chance that the second player could be a non defusal grenadier or other class, and set off the mines.

No it is neither strategic nor does it involve teamwork, it involves one player spawning and the rest of the team not spawning. It is a test of the team's obedience rather than the strategic skill of the team or the ability of the team to work together.

There is no teamwork involved as this does not rely on the team working together, see my comment above.

Well the 1 grenadier who mined the rax will be able to shoot his mortars and rockets into the rax with only the occasional problem from an enemy grenadier as anyone else who spawns will set off the mines and there is not enough time to defuse all the mines.

 

It doesn't matter. If you can't lay 2 turrets at the entrances, than you fail. If you can't lay a camera, you fail. If you know the rax is mined and you don't spawn as a defuser you fail.
Etc, etc etc.

 

an engineer could nadespam the barracks to death in half the time. what's the problem?

 

The only reason mines do some damages against buildings is that I was too lazy to calculate the damage done. 300 - 300x0.95 = 15 damage per mine. So yea I can lower it to 6 damage per mine (0.98) but it isn't really a problem imo.

 

That is a problem with teams not working together correctly..
Teamwork means the whole team works together to accomplish a certain goal.
If that means spreading out than by all means spread out in a coordinated way.

IF you agree with the above I suggest you start rereading my post and if you don't say so so I can stop waisting time trying to explain it to you.

 

Some communication will solve this problem. Tell your team your rax is mined and to be careful. You shouldn't balance this game around idiots that don't listen or watch for mines.

 

The problem is getting your team to do anything at all!

I was comming on coast, and I told south to watch out behind them, their barracks was under attack from north. Now take a guess what happened?

 

We'll in a match where everyone knows how to play the game that wouldn't happen. Should we make the game around people who don't know how to play? I always defuse barrack mines.

 

The problem is that it only takes one inexperienced person to set off mines. That's why the game should generally avoid a situation where one person setting off mines can be devastating for their entire team.

 

I for one, support my manual reading overlords

also, insulting noobs help them learn to play the game

 

FYI if you stack mines their damage is halved. So its 7 damage per mine then. Takes over 30 mines this way to blow up something important. So 1 nub will only set back the building by 15ish health. 30 if he insists on blowing himself up. Overall, not really a problem.

 

You don't stack mines in raxes, you scatter them.