Mines do neglible damage to buildings

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Alceister, May 16, 2009.

  1. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    Because some complete bastards will place them all around the barracks and should you spawn and trip on them, it will start a chain reaction.
     
  2. Caelo

    Caelo Member

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    which is a valid tactic..
    they shouldnt even be able to get close to the rax anyways...


    PLEASE do not remove every valid tactic just because it is effective.
    you can go play pong if you dont want a game where tactics count.
     
  3. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Er, as far as I recall mines already do negligible damage to buildings, certainly not as much as they do to tanks.
     
  4. Dawgas

    Dawgas Banned

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    I miss when mines were useful
     
  5. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    It's a stupid tactic! It's something that you can't readily counter. If say a rear barracks is under attack, you spawn from there and boom, you take out a good chunk of the masonry and you're dead to boot.

    And also, have you ever played pong? Or have you simply dismissed out of hand simply because it is an "old game".
     
  6. Dawgas

    Dawgas Banned

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    defusal

    revive
     
  7. Sandbag

    Sandbag Member

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    yeah, this is one of the few interesting tactics.
     
  8. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    Defusal while you're getting shot at? Revive when there's no one there or you're both dead?

    I don't have nothing against mining the barracks to be frank. I have however, something against it doing damage to the barracks.
     
  9. Demented

    Demented Member

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    Nothing wrong with a chain reaction if it ends up killing more people.
    When one person ends up dying, but 7 mines go off, that's a problem.

    The mortar being largely useless in a building siege is also a problem.
     
  10. Drag

    Drag Member

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    Mines are not detonation packs and no they don't work against buildings anymore. Its enough that you can plaster the spawn with them.
     
  11. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    They do work against buildings last I checked.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
  12. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    They do damage to them yes but not very much, you'd need a whole set of them to seriously damage a building and if you get that many mines in your rax you're doing something wrong, just put a couple of MG turrets around the building, otherwise what exactly do you expect to happen when a completely undefended building gets attacked by a class with explosive weaponry?
     
  13. Aquillion

    Aquillion Member

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    What I dislike about mines hurting buildings (now, with 9-mine gone -- which I think is a good thing, but that's a separate topic) is that you end up in a situation where one noob or whatever can cost your entire team the game, or at least an important structure. I don't think that should be the case. Weapons shouldn't rely so much on luck.

    If people feel that the grenadier needs better weapons against buildings, I'd say that their mortar should be buffed for that -- but I don't think that their mines should be their anti-structure weapon. It just doesn't work very well... it's difficult to balance something that basically relies on a random enemy setting it off.

    And aside from that, sneaking into buildings and destroying them from the inside out strikes me as a scout thing, not a grenadier thing -- grenadiers are more suitable for med-to-long-range attacks, both against structures and tanks. If people really want some 'planted building boom' thing like that, it should be implemented for the scout, and in a way that doesn't involve random chance for setting it off.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
  14. OuNin

    OuNin Member

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    Grenadier is demolitions.
     
  15. Caelo

    Caelo Member

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    moving mines to scouts has been suggested before :)

    Planting mines at someone spawn should be allowed.
    Granted there's no easy way to counter it, except for spawning as a gren with defusal, but there are numerous easy ways of preventing it.

    If the devs would remove every tactic that is not easily countered you'd end up with a boring game where no tactic would work.
     
  16. Meliarion

    Meliarion Member

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    This would be easier to deal with if you defusal was much more about defusing mines instead of just avoiding them and if there was some way to prevent the other people who will spawn back to help from setting of the mines.
     
  17. Aquillion

    Aquillion Member

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    No they aren't. Engineers and scouts get the most straightforward close-range anti-structure weapons. Grenadiers don't even have the ability to destroy walls.

    Grenadiers are long-range anti-tank and anti-structure support, good for when you're actively contesting a defended structure. Engineers and (to a lesser extent) scouts are demolitions; they're far better at quickly blowing up structures you already have control over, or sneaking in and crippling a structure in an instant.

    The problem is not countering or preventing it; the problem is that once the mines have been planted, whether or not someone sets them off is totally random. This is not a desirable game mechanic.

    Additionally, and more simply, spawning and getting blown up instantly (or near-instantly depending on your spawn invulnerability) is just no fun for anyone involved. Telling me that my teammates could have built a turret to defend every single spawn does not make it any less pathetically unfun. You could 'prevent' superweapons by keeping your enemy from building them, but there are still none in Empires, because it is recognized that they wouldn't be any fun once they hit the field; this is the same way.

    And I disagree with your final comment in the strongest possible terms. If the devs removed every tactic that was not easily countered -- if, in other words, everything in the game had an easy counter -- it would force players to constantly adapt and change their strategies to catch the enemy off guard. This would lead to much deeper and more strategic gameplay in the long run, because nobody could rely too heavily on one imbalanced tactic.
     
  18. Roflcopter Rego

    Roflcopter Rego Member

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    The counter to this is 4 MG turrets outside your barracks. Grenadiers are not invisable, nor are mines. If you see someone planting in your rax, you shout at your team not to spawn for a second then defuse them. More than 8 mines are needed to destroy a barracks, I think it's about 12. General view is that mortar should be more effective vs buidlings, thus making gren anti-building. 2.24 has already seen some changes like this.

    In 2.22, in slaughtered, there was no counter to dual small artillery. The pug on that map is the second most boring game I have ever played (the first being the pug on UC). Literally, there was nothing you could do. Eventually NF made an opening for an APC rush. Eventually, when most people had given up and started leaving. There is an easy counter to mines in rax. It does not create stalemates but instead creates faster gameplay. Stop raging about valid things when you get beaten because of them, don't blame the game, blame the playa.
     
  19. мrвlυeѕĸy

    мrвlυeѕĸy Member

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    I like that mines kill buildings. If you run in fast enough on the third flag of Escort as BE you can drop enough mines by the flag that when someone walks on them it takes out all their ground level lvl 3 turrets... these are legitimate tactics and are fun too...

    What I want to see is for Mines to be able to be stuck to vehicle models like the C4 packs on Battlefields 2. You could then mine up a jeep... drive towards a heavy tank and hop out at the last minute and laugh at the devastation :)
     
  20. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    No it isn't, you step on the mine and it goes off, you don't step on the mine and it doesn't.

    That's like saying that whether you die or not or whether you lose a tank is totally random because you might not get shot, just as you might not step on the mine.
     

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