Mines Damage vs. Infantry

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by .:.HeXi.:. emcalex329, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    This post should receive a large response so that I don't come across demeaning, but I'm still shocked by how tactless and insensitive it was. And this escalation is even moreso.
     
  2. .:.HeXi.:. emcalex329

    .:.HeXi.:. emcalex329 Member

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    Already apologized. Would suggest that the matter be put to rest.
     
  3. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    That message actually took me about 15 minutes to word appropriately, so I didn't see that before posting. I apologise for dragging it on.

    Coming back on topic, I remain unconvinced about the damage. 100 is often enough to down you in combat circumstances anyways, and the simplicity of scoring hits with mines is staggering. If you just drop them around a hotspot or in a stack on a vehicle path, you are bound to get some points from them, with minimal input from your person.
     
  4. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    if mines really shouldnt instakill infantry, then why no make it half the damage of health upgradef infantry (= 65)? this way its at least equal for everyone. the noob who just figured out there are class specific skills and doenst know the value of health upgrade yet, aka the guy who this allegedly is all about, and the long term player who take it almost every round anyway.
     
  5. Avatarix

    Avatarix Member

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    Why not make mines not deal damage to infantry? In the end they are hard to notice and people stop playing because they didnt notice something on the ground.
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    yeah lets remove everything even remotely threatening anyone and instead sing kumbaya.
     
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  7. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    You're thinking of pristine lab conditions right there - the reality is that during gameplay, things aren't nearly as pristine, in this case people will be damaged in varying degrees, some below 65, some below 30, but some only below the magical 100. Any reduction below that hundred will be more and more evident and mines will quickly become nearly useless against infantry, and by extension against vehicles (because live defusal of lone mines will be more prevalent).
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    well 99 then. why shouldnt they instakill more experienced players when its all about noobs quitting because they step on mines? which is something i dont believe since ive never ever heard anyone complain about that in the 10 years i spent on this game.

    also talking about comparisons to other games. there are plenty of FPS that have instakill mechanics for minelike weaponry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
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  9. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    99 damage is effectively lethal in combat conditions. And:

    From my experience, I'm essentially a mine magnet when playing infantry, and I do get frustrated at continuously walking into mines. You'd think I'd learn after such a long time, but no, the same mistakes are done over and over again.
     
  10. Avatarix

    Avatarix Member

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    Is walking out ot Rax/spawn a combat situation? Because many more mines are placed at these locations rather than in open walkways or under trees.
     
  11. NekoBaron

    NekoBaron Member

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    It really is bollocks mines are practically useless verses everything and that the CV is mostly used as a magical invincible minesweeper now days.
     
  12. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    It's why I listed the great six properties of Empires landmines, I didn't just tell you I am nerfing it simply because it can one-hit any infantry.

    1: One-hit death.
    2: No interaction.
    3: Can be placed inside buildings or places that are hard/virtually impossible to avoid.
    4: Gren can place 8 of them.
    5: Not very visible. (If you compare with the tripmines in Half-Life)
    6: Easy to set up, no cost, available from get-go.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  13. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    As far as I know other games that have those instant death mine like things have a very low limit to the number you can have out(around 2) and you can destroy them, mines are indestructible. To be fair in those other games there's an area you can activate them, like it deploys tripwires or whatever, but mines are simply less noticeable in empires, especially on certain maps where they blend into the background.(I really can't see be mines in the dark on dark surfaces like on shadows attacks, I don't know who can).

    I am amused that one of the people who plays gren 80% of the time says "You just put 2 and its done, I hardly noticed it last time we had it, lol". I feel like this says something about decent grens vs the not very good ones.
     
  14. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    btw since mines are a cunt mechanic for infantry, how about give everyone mine removal capabilities? Makes no sense that we cant kill mines by shooting a bullet against it ( vehicles cant kill it though that'd make too much sense ) Or make mines invisiible for vehicles? unless you have mine detection? That way you have to work together infantry and vehicles against mines


    If I didnt know any better I'd say security and destroyer and the infiltraitors together.

    I vote DESTROYER

     
  15. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    To be fair, I think mines should insta kill.

    I have never once seen a noob complain about stepping on a mine and then quitting. I have seen them complain about mines, but they usually just say "god damnit". Stepping on a mine is pretty self explanatory, you step on it then you say to your self "God damn it, I'm fucking stupid", respawn and attempt to not make the same mistake. Seriously, I think dumbing the game down is stupid in all regards. I know people will say "This isn't real life" but people place shit tons of land mines all over the world and usually die. There is no interaction other than stepping on the mine, they can be placed anywhere, there can be a shit ton of them, they are hidden UNDER THE GROUND so at least in Empires you can see them above the ground, very easy to setup.

    Like I said, I know this game isn't striving for realism, but people really don't hate a game for something as simple as a mine. Everyone knows what they are in real life, and people should expect that from this game. What I would LOVE from mines in this game is varying damage. Sometimes it deals 130 damage and it's sudden death, sometimes its 100 damage.

    I see people quit over these reasons though: Not knowing how to customize vehicles, having shitty commander, low pop be it through spectate or just low pop in general.
     
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  16. NekoBaron

    NekoBaron Member

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    The only reason mines are nerfed is because idiots think they are too good because of infantry/restricted play area maps when in reality the majority of maps are so open mines are often driven around or avoided by pure luck, which is why I think mappers can add anti mine brushes to maps if somewhere vital is too easy to mine.

    The only class that should live a mine explosion should be a gren since they are ment to be the anti tank/explosive resisting class.
     
  17. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    Mines should do more damage vs heavies and for infantry - well it's debatable. I'm ok with instant kill but maybe there should be and anti tank and anti personnel. where you place them is different based on what you are trying to do so I think there is a decent "skill based" argument for having different ones.
     
  18. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    Mining is cool.
     
  19. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    remember when there was a suggestion to disable mines when someone was defusing them so people dont run on it when its being defused (the only annoying thing about mines) and instead mines got nerfed so you can run on them all you want as a 130hp rifle cause fuck that defusing noob gren who got defusal instead of hp upgrade
     
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  20. .:.HeXi.:. emcalex329

    .:.HeXi.:. emcalex329 Member

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    I second this, especially over the "having a shitty commander" reason. And it really goes both ways: being subject to a shitty commander is infuriating, but it's just as infuriating to play commander and then have your entire team yell at you, because you don't accommodate their play styles or whatever - add to this the fact that if you command, you essentially take all the blame for a loss and none of the credit for a victory, and the mere existence of the role of the commander is probably one of the more prevalent reasons as to why we can't retain new players, and almost incontrovertibly the single largest reason as to why experienced players pop in and out so often.

    I used to not understand the appeal of Escort, District, and maps where the commander doesn't play that large of a role (e.g. Money), but on further consideration, it makes a lot more sense. On those maps, the entire game relies on the personal skill of the members of the team - no single member can really ruin the game for the rest of the team. Really, it's ironic that the greatest scrappy mechanic in Empires is supposedly that which lends it its uniqueness and charm.

    It would be an interesting experiment to see what would happen if a popular server ran mostly commanderless maps - I have a feeling that people would get frustrated much less easily, and be more willing to try to help new players to learn, simply because on these maps, there's not much that a new player could do to completely sabotage his or her team. And there's a reason why District is often used to seed servers, and why people don't sit and spectate for nearly as long on commanderless maps: because you can make an immediate difference on the game, and the game doesn't become some backslide, just because one person in the CV made a few mistakes.

    But re: mines - why don't we just make a poll?
     

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